2.41
#...
·
·
1
like
|
|---|
Bill, nice discusdion, really mind opening…. 100 per cent on your side. Free is not alwaya good or always bad, the sana applies to rhe paid products. To find a proper balance is a really hard task. Your images are anazing, clear skies and good luck in your new observatories, I am your truly beleiver! |
|
2.41
#...
·
·
2
likes
|
|---|
Jose Mtanous: *** Totally agreed, I hate cloudynights forums, people are ofter fighting just for fun, with no real reason  Hard to understand why some people are so neirotic and aggresive in chats, probably, because in bar fights they are always lose…. ***
|
|
2.41
#...
·
·
1
like
|
|---|
| From my personal experience (out of astrophotography topic): few years ago I agreed to administer some legal forum…. Oh, boy…. I never ever saw so many hates and assaults, verbal abuses, even threats…. And these men and women are lawyers, knowing the legal consequencies for such harsh words…. I quited in a year, loosing my faith in the mainkind (not in separate individulas) and hundreds banned forever forum users. After this experience I really re-evaluated judge’s profession. And I started astrophotography hobby, better see the stars and planets over crazy people torn apart by their neurosises, mental unstability and childhood traumas (Dr.Freud was a real genious). |
11.99
#...
·
|
|---|
I decided to take my own advice and try and find Voyager's terms and conditions. I don't own Voyager, but the forum website has TOS which seem to apply to any product available through the starkeeper.it website (which would include Voyager, presumably). The following statement applies to limitation of liability:In no event will Starkeeper.it, or its suppliers or licensors, be liable with respect to any subject matter of this agreement under any contract, negligence, strict liability or other legal or equitable theory for: (i) any special, incidental or consequential damages; (ii) the cost of procurement for substitute products or services; (iii) for interruption of use or loss or corruption of data; or (iv) for any amounts that exceed the fees paid by you to Starkeeper.it under this agreement during the twelve (12) month period prior to the cause of action. Starkeeper.it shall have no liability for any failure or delay due to matters beyond their reasonable control. The foregoing shall not apply to the extent prohibited by applicable law. I think this is fairly typical for any commercial software you can buy. No developer, particularly a small developer, wants to be liable for consequential damages or really, for anything beyond the cost of the software itself. Of course, there is high value software that you can specifically negotiate better TOS for, but it would be more expensive and I doubt astro software that you can buy for ~$150 falls in that category. Incidentally, Astrobin's TOS has very similar language  Please note: I am not making any claim about the quality of service or robustness of the software. This is not intended to be a dig against Voyager. Simply saying that the action of paying for something may not bring you the level of legal protection you think it does! |
|
2.41
#...
·
|
|---|
People never read small print of licensing agreement…. Too bad! This why, we-lawyers, are so well paid  |
|
2.41
#...
·
|
|---|
| But to be fare -if you could prove tgat you suffered real extensive damages due to the software failure or any its defects -this small print may not protect the software’ developer, it depends of jurisdiction where the claim is heard, presiding judge and, as always, your lawyer… I remember one case against really big gas distrubuting company, a presiding judge was so happy to cut them in pieces (I suspect he may have the similar dispute before going to the toilete)…. So this company paid everything plus punitive damages as well…. |
|
11.99
#...
·
·
1
like
|
|---|
Adel Kildeev: Fair enough. I expect that that is one reason why a developer making paid software would carry liability insurance. They might also segregate themselves personally from their business. So if they were to get sued, the payment would be limited to whatever the insurance can pay, or whatever the assets of the business happen to be as opposed to their personal assets. But a lawyer would have a lot of incentive to go after a big company with deep pockets and much less incentive to go after a small developer with limited assets! |
|
2.41
#...
·
|
|---|
Arun H:Adel Kildeev: *** It is just a matter of the amount, for really bog money good lawyers squize his/her dead grandparents any attempt to avoid personal responsibity (ie.I was just a director/manager or the company, this is limited liability company, my personsl assets have nothing to do with my company’debts -nothing will work for him… As a director he has full financial responsibilities for the actions of the company etc…. It is not place to discuss legal proceeding but technically it all possible. With the lack of real banking secrets and confidentiality all assests could be easily tracked, arrested etc. Hungry lawyer is an unstopable machine ***
|
0.90
#...
·
·
2
likes
|
|---|
|
Looks like this thread is over, isn’t it? Happy Nina or Voyager to all! |
|
2.41
#...
·
|
|---|
| Amen! |
8.52
#...
·
·
2
likes
|
|---|
| TLDR; OP, try both software and see which you like best. Both packages can do whatever you need them to do. That really is the only true answer IMO since software choice is such a personal thing. Everyone's needs and tastes vary. The only objective truth here is that both NINA and Voyager get the job done while having their own set of quirks. |
0.00
#...
·
·
1
like
|
|---|
Rafael Sampaio:Reg Pratt:AdrianC.:Fun thing. Voyager has a Robofocus mode. Every time interval or temperature change or filter change (your choice), it refocuses. As follows. No. It's not _remotely close to providing the advanced features of Voyager. A question is: Do you need them? Re the debate about support. NINA works hard at it, and there are more NINA users. But Voyager support is available also. When I tried NINA, I NEEDED a lot of support, even stuff I thought should be easy wasn't, it required a lot of knowledge about the program. With Voyager I haven't needed nearly as much. I found it much more intuitive, and the documentation quite good. I've exchanged emails with Leo, and he has been both helpful and polite. In the early days of Voyager he was a bit difficult, based on my experience, I'd say he's changed. |
 #...
·
·
1
like
|
|---|
| No need to turn this into a battle. Everyone should choose the software that fits their purpose/needs. Many of them if not all have trial periods |
2.71
#...
·
·
2
likes
|
|---|
|
Like every part of this hobby, every other hobby (and life!) there will always be confirmation bias. Whether obvious, subtle or unintentional. There will also be built in preference/expectation for layout and workflow. We can only offer up our experiences of the software, use cases where it fits better, features that were critical to us etc. I've used both (just as a backyard astro photographer though) and used support on both - They are both brilliant pieces of software in what they allow us to do. There's been some good information in this thread and I can understand where the two camps fall and reasons why. Hopefully OP has managed to get an idea of what might best fit in their situation. |
