Chris White- Overcast Observatory:
Daniel Carter:
@Chris White- Overcast Observatory If it a a grab and go mount then it is much easier to baby sit and make sure collisions don't occur. I never leave mine unattended for very long and I can usually monitor mine with the camera I have in my back yard once i have a session started.
Daniel Carter:
Nick Grundy:
Daniel Carter:
I've used both the 135 and 135E. The added convenience of the encoders especially for guiding is worth the cost in my opinion.
What sort of guiding did you get from the encoder version? I was tempted by that one before I bought the HEM44EC.
When I have decent seeing I get 0.3 to 0.5" guiding. Even with bad seeing I normally still get 0.75 to 1.25" guiding. This was using an OAG with a Stowaway with the field flattener. I can normally use 3 to 5 second exposures and get good guiding.
How do you like the iOptron mount? I was interested on the HAE69EC if Rainbow doesn't release a 300E.
Sounds like you are getting pretty much seeing limited guiding performance. Are stars coming out nice and round as well?
The idea of a pier crash is a concern. I will most definitely not be babysitting it. I sleep through much of my imaging night otherwise I'm a zombie the next day. It seems that it would be an easy feature to have protection against a pier crash. Just something that senses a power draw and stops the motors.
I emailed Rainbow a few days ago (Maybe wed or thurs) but have not had a reply yet. I'll ask them for a little more details about what the mount does if there is a crash.
When I get to work Tuesday I'll email you a couple of subframes from the other night that I took of the Veil Nebula with my Stowaway.
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I was just on Rainbow's web page and found a section addressing the safety features for pier crash. It looks like there is a load monitor for the motor and if abnormal load is detected it will cut power to the motors. Assuming this is instant, like with my Mach2, then there is not much risk with a pier crash when tracking or slewing. Has anyone heard of someone damaging equipment due to a pier crash with this the RST mounts? I cant really find anything in a google search, although that is certainly not dispositive.
Here is the language from Rainbow:
Many people feel that Strain wave gear mounts (Harmonic drive mounts) are more dangerous to collision with telescopes and tripods than worm gear mounts. The large force of the strain wave gear makes counterweight unnecessary and unbalanced, but it can also be a disadvantage for the same reason. Therefore, RST mount has the following safety features.
-Motor load monitoring
If the load of the motor becomes abnormal during tracking or GOTO, a warning message is displayed on the hand controller and an alarm sounds. At the same time, the motor is cut off to prevent damage to the equipment. This is possible because the motor on the mount has an encoder and we use a PID controller.
- Motor temperature monitoring
If for some reason a load is applied to the motor for a long time, the temperature of the motor will increase. Therefore, monitoring motor temperature may reveal other problems that motor load monitoring alone cannot detect. The RST mount detects this with a temperature sensor attached to the motor and displays a warning message on the hand controller and sounds an alarm. At the same time, the motor is cut off to prevent damage.
-Tracking, Slew Altitude Limit
In order to prevent the collision of telescopes and tripods, tracking and slew altitude are limited. The factory default setting is for the mount to stop tracking at an altitude of 0 and the meridian. This setting also prevents the cable from pulling out. The setting can be changed by the user. |
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Chris White- Overcast Observatory:
I was just on Rainbow's web page and found a section addressing the safety features for pier crash. It looks like there is a load monitor for the motor and if abnormal load is detected it will cut power to the motors. Assuming this is instant, like with my Mach2, then there is not much risk with a pier crash when tracking or slewing. Has anyone heard of someone damaging equipment due to a pier crash with this the RST mounts? I cant really find anything in a google search, although that is certainly not dispositive.
Here is the language from Rainbow:
Many people feel that Strain wave gear mounts (Harmonic drive mounts) are more dangerous to collision with telescopes and tripods than worm gear mounts. The large force of the strain wave gear makes counterweight unnecessary and unbalanced, but it can also be a disadvantage for the same reason. Therefore, RST mount has the following safety features.
-Motor load monitoring
If the load of the motor becomes abnormal during tracking or GOTO, a warning message is displayed on the hand controller and an alarm sounds. At the same time, the motor is cut off to prevent damage to the equipment. This is possible because the motor on the mount has an encoder and we use a PID controller.
- Motor temperature monitoring
If for some reason a load is applied to the motor for a long time, the temperature of the motor will increase. Therefore, monitoring motor temperature may reveal other problems that motor load monitoring alone cannot detect. The RST mount detects this with a temperature sensor attached to the motor and displays a warning message on the hand controller and sounds an alarm. At the same time, the motor is cut off to prevent damage.
-Tracking, Slew Altitude Limit
In order to prevent the collision of telescopes and tripods, tracking and slew altitude are limited. The factory default setting is for the mount to stop tracking at an altitude of 0 and the meridian. This setting also prevents the cable from pulling out. The setting can be changed by the user.
I haven't personally had a pier collision during a slew or an imaging session. I am really happy to hear they do have the protocols in place to avoid damage to equipment. I am curious as well. I would like to hear if anyone else has had a collision and how their equipment held up. I just know how much torque the mount has and know there is potential for damage if they didn't have anything to mitigate the damage.
I was looking on Pegasus Astro's website and couldn't find anything regarding a limit for torque in case of pier collisions. They have a warning in the manual regarding high torque and the possibility of damage due to the torque.
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It would be interesting to know if the other SW mounts have load monitoring and if in practice it's effective.
I think if one of these mounts do not, it is not suitable for unattended imaging.
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I once had a pier/tripod crash on my RST135E. When I realized it happened, I think my heart stopped for 1 second. I pulled the power as soon as I can. The crash was between the camera and the tripod. Magically nothing seemed damaged. The exterior of the camera seems as good as before. Subsequent use of the camera/scope doesn't show a focal plane tilt, suggesting that the camera mount was not under some strong stress during the crash. So I suppose Rainbow indeed puts some load monitor in it. But still, I will do everything I can to make sure that doesn't happen again.
It is a pricy mount, just about as pricy as a TAK of similar payload (EM200). Personally I had owned two iOptron mounts for very long periods. I can testify that the overall build quality of everything on RST is indeed better than an iOptron. It's closer to a TAK than to an iOptron, but not really there yet. The low 2nd-hand price does not concern me, as long as I can use this mount for a long time. Unfortunately RST is relatively new, and no one knows if it can last as long as a TAK or AP mount.
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I have never had a collision with this mount and can confirm the meridian limits do work. There have been times where I forgot to enable meridian flips in NINA and the mount simply stops tracking one it reaches the set limit (I have mine set to 5 degrees past meridian).
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I have had a pier crash, but it did not damage equipment. I was with my setup when it happened and was able to quickly power cycle and re-home. It was when the mount was still new to me and I didn’t know the mount had to be homed after PA, so it did a bad slew.
I try to monitor initial slews now, but not subsequent slews. I also run automated meridian flips without issues.
Rainbow’s post about cutting power when a pier collision is imminent is interesting. I have had power apparently cut but I always figured it was because balance was way off with a heavier payload. I don’t recall any kind of message in the ASCOM driver alerting that a pier collision was imminent.
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One easy and inexpensive solution to avoid power losses is to use a 15v USB pd power cable and a regular USB PD powerbank just to power the RST-135. A fairly light one is more than enough for a full night of use.
This solution is recommended by Rainbow Astro, actually https://www.rainbowastro.com/2020/03/10/running-the-rst-135-mount-with-a-portable-charger/ |
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Rafael Sampaio:
One easy and inexpensive solution to avoid power losses is to use a 15v USB pd power cable and a regular USB PD powerbank just to power the RST-135. A fairly light one is more than enough for a full night of use.
This solution is recommended by Rainbow Astro, actually https://www.rainbowastro.com/2020/03/10/running-the-rst-135-mount-with-a-portable-charger/
USB PD is indeed a great way to get 15V into the RST-135(E). It can be done either from power bank or a wall charger. My travel setup is now setup to completely run on USB PD. I have even seen a picture of someone who made a bracket for a power bank attached to the counterbalance connection on the mount, so no wires anywhere in the way while slewing.
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Rafael Sampaio:
One easy and inexpensive solution to avoid power losses is to use a 15v USB pd power cable and a regular USB PD powerbank just to power the RST-135. A fairly light one is more than enough for a full night of use.
This solution is recommended by Rainbow Astro, actually https://www.rainbowastro.com/2020/03/10/running-the-rst-135-mount-with-a-portable-charger/
Thank you for posting this! I could not find anything supplying 15v directly and did not want to mess with a buck converter.
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Wei-Hao Wang:
I once had a pier/tripod crash on my RST135E. When I realized it happened, I think my heart stopped for 1 second. I pulled the power as soon as I can. The crash was between the camera and the tripod. Magically nothing seemed damaged. The exterior of the camera seems as good as before. Subsequent use of the camera/scope doesn't show a focal plane tilt, suggesting that the camera mount was not under some strong stress during the crash. So I suppose Rainbow indeed puts some load monitor in it. But still, I will do everything I can to make sure that doesn't happen again.
It is a pricy mount, just about as pricy as a TAK of similar payload (EM200). Personally I had owned two iOptron mounts for very long periods. I can testify that the overall build quality of everything on RST is indeed better than an iOptron. It's closer to a TAK than to an iOptron, but not really there yet. The low 2nd-hand price does not concern me, as long as I can use this mount for a long time. Unfortunately RST is relatively new, and no one knows if it can last as long as a TAK or AP mount.
This is a good example of a crash. Thanks for sharing. I guarantee no matter how fast you are with the plug you were too late if damage was to occur. So thats good news that the motor stalled quickly!
I was thinking that a good safety measure would be to create a 3D printed extension to the mounting plate that would hit the pier before the OTA on the front or the camera on the back. This way, it would arrest the crash and if anything was damaged it would just be a 3D part.
I have two AP mounts and love them. Like everyone else, the appeal here is size and weight of the setup. I've pretty much written off ZWO/pegasus/iOptron for an SW mount and I think that with the resale prices of rainbow a nice deal could be had on the second hand market. I'll keep my eyes open for one of these, in particular the E version.
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Chris White- Overcast Observatory:
I'll keep my eyes open for one of these, in particular the E version.
I just exchanged notes with a guy on Astromart who is selling an RST-135, tripod and pier extension. timing is everything :-)
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Nick Grundy:
Chris White- Overcast Observatory:
I'll keep my eyes open for one of these, in particular the E version.
I just exchanged notes with a guy on Astromart who is selling an RST-135, tripod and pier extension. timing is everything :-)
Indeed! Did you score!?
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lol, no, I'm good with the HEM44EC that's already in my garage.
But just in case you are getting to that point...
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If anyone happens to end up with a RST-135(E), I have several risers left for the TPod 110 and TPod130 available for sale. It works reallt well. I had them made at a local shop since at the time I was unable to find the Rainbow Astro risers in stock. I couldn't have just one made so I had them make a batch and sold the others on the RST-135 group.io message board.
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I have one of these risers Daniel had made and the clearance it affords is much more usable than the half pier Rainbow option. IMO.
Tom
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Daniel Carter:
If anyone happens to end up with a RST-135(E), I have several risers left for the TPod 110 and TPod130 available for sale. It works reallt well. I had them made at a local shop since at the time I was unable to find the Rainbow Astro risers in stock. I couldn't have just one made so I had them make a batch and sold the others on the RST-135 group.io message board.
Hah! Great story. I'll keep this in mind if i get one.
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Chris, did you end up getting the mount?
I finally got around to configuring a 15v power supply using USB PD and the performance is night and day compared to 12v using my Epsilon (130D). Even with 4.6"/px image scale on the guider using a mini guide scope, I'm now getting consistently round stars whereas before I would sometimes have to go down to 60s exposures just to keep subs.
In short, 15-16v seems to be a necessity with this mount when carrying heavier scopes.
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I have one since 2020, in a remote operation with a fully loaded E160ed. Currently in the process of setting up another unit at a second site.
It performs at 0.5-0.8" RMS consistently night after night, whereever it's pointing at.
Equipped with two counterweight.
It is sensitive to wind gusts.
Make sur to automate polar parking at the end of the session, in case of a power failure.
Also as stated before, home before slewing at the start of each session.
The power connexion is pretty bad, it needs to be secured further.
Operation is better without the handpad connectco.
All in all, if the sampling allows, I find it great in its price range, especially second hand.
It is also excellent for visual use, and for travellers.
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3.58
20.43
11.99
0.00
2.71
1.20
4.89
3.81
0.00
4.07
