11.02
#...
·
·
2
likes
|
|---|
Adding some PixInsight results as well: Also the rotator from Agena did cause visibly more tilt in the start of the frame, and when doing some initial analysis with the Octopi, seemed to get worse (in the same direction) as the scope tracked higher and higher in the sky. Due to this, I do not recommend it for this system. |
20.43
#...
·
·
2
likes
|
|---|
|
Bill, I can sum this progress up in two words: Freaking Awesome. And that seeing! Look at those number! I dont think I have ever seen nor will ever see seeing like that in my local skies. |
|
11.02
#...
·
·
1
like
|
|---|
Bill, Yeah I think the combination of the seeing and the very flat field has made that collimation error that likely always existed, pop out in the data a lot easier. Luckily, Epsilon scopes can be collimated in the daytime, so sitting down and working out the problem was pretty easy to do. Looks like I had a few rookie mistakes in there, from when I originally collimated it the first time that I basically have perpetuated with my tweaks since then.  |
|
11.02
#...
·
·
1
like
|
|---|
|
I think the thermal issue I mentioned earlier is probably worth some additional thought. Tyrel Smith designed this 3D printed cooling system for the E160ED: Thing files for Takahashi Epsilon E160ED Cooling Cover and Fan Bracket by MonkeyBird747 - Thingiverse I have a 60mm Noctua 12v fan on order, with some 2.1x5.5 barrel connectors, and a set of M4 screws of various lengths to get it connected. I can run this on the variable voltage port on the Ultimate Powerbox to allow me to change the speed of the fan. Full blast during cooldown, and probably a few volts during runtime to keep the mirror from heating. I think this is a legitimate thing for folks to plan for. I went back to some of my old data in June, which was taken before the sweltering heat, and there is no real sign of star distortion at all. I then looked at data I took for IC1396 project I did, and the and there is the same minor distortion present in those stars that I am seeing today (still in heat wave). Since it will take a bit for all the parts to arrive, I plan to remove the rear port on the scope tonight to see if that will help. Here is an example of the effect, taken from data used in the IC1396 project:  Here is an example of the effect not present, in data taken before the heat wave:  Only changes between these two results, was the massive change in temperature. It is a very minor thing. Here is the effect in the one good frame I managed to get last night before clouds rolled in:  |
|
11.02
#...
·
|
|---|
Sample shot of the cooling port on the scope for those unaware. |
|
11.02
#...
·
·
1
like
|
|---|
Quick share here with everyone, opening the port, certainly helped: I think the fan system will improve further.  |
|
11.02
#...
·
·
1
like
|
|---|
Just finished up with NINA Hocus Focus tonight. Results? Important to know that the size of the steps here, are 0.08 microns.
|
|
11.02
#...
·
·
2
likes
|
|---|
I think you would be hard pressed to find a field better than this: Frame: https://www.dropbox.com/s/1h0a8xig63fw4ay/HA%20New.fit?dl=0 |
|
11.02
#...
·
·
1
like
|
|---|
|
This is so good it makes me smile. Thanks to my friend Chris that pushed me hard to get the best from my gear. You are a friend and a brother, and I value you deeply sir. Thanks to George, who wrote this good tool that can really help people. While, I am not a fan of the NINA client, and I think that is a fair stance for anyone to have, I think this plugin is very useful. The one thing about this, that isnt useful at all -- is the "sensor model" in the tool. Its not very good, and if you follow it blindly, it will leave you with a tilted field. Either that or I'm interpreting it wrong. The normal model works perfect though. |
|
11.02
#...
·
·
1
like
|
|---|
|
Fitted the Noctua cooling fan. Going to test exhaust mode first, as this is used in most imaging systems such as the CDK, RCOS, etc. Flipping the fan is pretty easy to do though. Variable voltage port on the Pegasus Ultimate Powerbox V2 allows operating the fan at 5-12v.  |
0.00
#...
·
|
|---|
|
Hi William, I'm very interested. I've attached a Hasselblad X1Dii to an E160 via a home machined adaptor, but suffer insane radial colour gradients, although the star images are not that bad. Brian Boggenpoel. |
22.40
#...
·
·
2
likes
|
|---|
|
Congratulations Bill! That looks like really superb field performance. That scope is amazing. I'm committed to the GTX130, but I'd switch if I could. John |
|
11.02
#...
·
·
1
like
|
|---|
John Hayes: Thanks John. One recent epiphany I had, is that the rear of the telescope is completely sealed, sans a small port you can open to "cool down" the scope. After reading extensive write-ups on tube currents, there is very little chance that the E160-ED ever achieves thermal equilibrium. In fact, for those not opening that port while imaging, there is little to no chance of it doing so; even with the port opened, I doubt it would have much effect on its own. To that end, I installed a Noctua 60mm fan I plan to use tonight to see if that will help with some strangeness I have seen in the field. It will no doubt improve the thermal status of the scope, and I am curious to see what happens. -Bill |
|
22.40
#...
·
·
2
likes
|
|---|
John Hayes: Bill, I'll be curious to hear how that works. I would have suggested that all you need is a 25 mm fan run at half speed. I'll bet that a 60 mm fan will be too big to run while the shutter is open. John |
|
11.02
#...
·
·
1
like
|
|---|
|
Sharing my experience here, at 12v the Noctua fan causes zero problems with stars, vibration, etc. At 6v it still does not cause those problems, but the field starts to show minor issues. I am going to run the fan at full 12v all night and get some data and share my results. |
|
11.02
#...
·
·
1
like
|
|---|
| I think the 5v version of this same fan could run at lower voltages fine, there is a possibility that the issues I saw were due to the fan motor reacting negatively to smaller voltages. At 12V though this is not causing any problems and seems to be making star fields very clean of tube current errors. |
|
20.43
#...
·
·
1
like
|
|---|
|
Last night I made some progress with setting up my e160ed. I finally received the LEO and installed that. I ran NINA Hocus Focus a few times fixed tilt up nicely. My spacing is exactly at Tak spec of 57.2mm (With 3mm thick filter). Stars look pretty decent after just a tiny bit of fiddling! I dont quite have the results that Bill achieved. If I run the Roland spacing test, I can tell that focus tightens up a little in the corners with a slight offset of in-focus. So I need to add a little bit of backspacing. NINA and ASTAP also suggest I need a little bit of spacing (although the NINA spacing recommendation is suspect in some cases. George is working on this phenomenon). ASTAP shows minor tilt. Most revealing in the ASTAP analysis as well as the PI maps for eccentricity and FWHM is that there is still a fairly large delta between the corners and the center. Again, all of this is more evidence that I need a tiny tweak in spacing. While ASTAP does show minor tilt, it's probably not as bad as it is measuring. With a needed spacing tweak I expect the current level of tilt will diminish. There is a compounding effect of tilt and spacing, so I suspect the sensor is quite orthogonal to the optical axis, and once the field is flat with a spacing fix I will be 99% of the way there. I was able to collect a few hours of data last night, and I think Bill is definitely on to something regarding thermal tube currents. I did see some slight inconsistencies across the night which would align with his observation. Thanks Bill for sharing your experience! I think it has helped me to dramatically accelerate the rate of my progress. Here is where I'm at right now:      |
|
11.02
#...
·
·
1
like
|
|---|
| The cooling fan definitely helped solve the teardrop star scenario I was seeing get increasingly worse as the sweltering heat increased. So I'll highly recommend it to folks using this scope as it's a very simple modification to make with a very high return for the time and money. |
|
20.43
#...
·
|
|---|
The cooling fan definitely helped solve the teardrop star scenario I was seeing get increasingly worse as the sweltering heat increased. So I'll highly recommend it to folks using this scope as it's a very simple modification to make with a very high return for the time and money. Is that what I'm seeing in my stars across the entire frame? You can see it in my AA above. |
|
11.02
#...
·
·
1
like
|
|---|
The cooling fan definitely helped solve the teardrop star scenario I was seeing get increasingly worse as the sweltering heat increased. So I'll highly recommend it to folks using this scope as it's a very simple modification to make with a very high return for the time and money. Sure is. That should diminish with the fan. |
|
20.43
#...
·
·
1
like
|
|---|
The cooling fan definitely helped solve the teardrop star scenario I was seeing get increasingly worse as the sweltering heat increased. So I'll highly recommend it to folks using this scope as it's a very simple modification to make with a very high return for the time and money. Cool. I was considering collimation, but the tak tools say that is perfect. Good to know! Will install the fan as soon as I can. |
|
11.02
#...
·
·
2
likes
|
|---|
| Most of the articles I read about heat and Newtonian scopes talked about how the issues experienced when not cooled properly would appear like collimation error or optical pinching, etc. That's definitely what I noticed in the field and saw a complete turnaround on with the fan added. What's interesting is that I did make some collimation adjustments, but of course the field looked pretty much the same. As soon as the fan was added, problem gone. |
|
20.43
#...
·
·
1
like
|
|---|
Most of the articles I read about heat and Newtonian scopes talked about how the issues experienced when not cooled properly would appear like collimation error or optical pinching, etc. That's definitely what I noticed in the field and saw a complete turnaround on with the fan added. What's interesting is that I did make some collimation adjustments, but of course the field looked pretty much the same. As soon as the fan was added, problem gone. I do recall looking at some of your data sets in previous posts and thought there could be a slight trefoil shape to the stars in a few samples. Since it wasn't noticeable at 1:1 and only at 4:1, I didn't bother mentioning it. I thought it would be too neurotic of me. I'm guessing this is thermal too. Thanks for doing all that research! |
|
11.02
#...
·
·
1
like
|
|---|
Most of the articles I read about heat and Newtonian scopes talked about how the issues experienced when not cooled properly would appear like collimation error or optical pinching, etc. That's definitely what I noticed in the field and saw a complete turnaround on with the fan added. What's interesting is that I did make some collimation adjustments, but of course the field looked pretty much the same. As soon as the fan was added, problem gone. Yep, that was the issue I was digging into. Based on what I read, ideally one would have a side mounted fan as well (like the Planewave Delta Rho does) to break up the boundary layer of heat on the mirror surface, but that is not on my list of things to do with this scope. Another interesting test would be to see the difference with the fan blowing on the mirror instead of just exhausting air out the rear. Since I don't want to blow dead mosquitos into my scope, I will pass on that for now. |
|
20.43
#...
·
|
|---|
Most of the articles I read about heat and Newtonian scopes talked about how the issues experienced when not cooled properly would appear like collimation error or optical pinching, etc. That's definitely what I noticed in the field and saw a complete turnaround on with the fan added. What's interesting is that I did make some collimation adjustments, but of course the field looked pretty much the same. As soon as the fan was added, problem gone. So you have it setup now to pull air from the ota and exhaust out? Yeah, I'm not gonna be taking a hole saw to my tube anytime soon. |
