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Hello all! Just to introduce myself, I'm Hayden and I've been doing astrophotography for over a year now.  I currently use a RedCat 51 with a DSLR but I'm feeling a much bigger upgrade in my near future and would love to invest in an Edge HD 8". With this upgrade comes a new camera as well, which is where I'm stuck. My research has led me to either the ASI2600MC or the ASI294MC. The 294 has bigger pixels and is a bunch cheaper but the 2600 has no amp glow, higher resolution, a standard APS-C sensor size, lower read noise and all that. I'd like to keep using my RedCat along with the Edge HD just to note as well of course. I'm new enough to this hobby to know what these things mean but still new enough to not know what the best compromise is lol. For reference I will be buying the camera first and then the Edge HD later down the line once I spend more time thinking on it. Anyway, my concise question is: given the RedCat and EdgeHD specs, which camera would be the best of both worlds so to speak? Thanks for reading |
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| Definitely the 2600MC, if budget allows. I've had both scopes and that camera works well for both. I have had difficulties in calibration of the 294 with flats, and I'm not the only one, even though I've had much experience with making proper flats, the 294MC is quite elusive in that aspect (e.g. making flats with the L-eXtreme by Optolong). |
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| Opinions will vary of course. But if cost is not the limiting factor, then the 2600mc over the 294mc all day, any day. I use my 2600mc on both my Edge 8 and Redcat 71. If need be, you can always down sample the Edge 8 and drizzle the Redcat when needed. Just make sure to always dither your runs. |
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I have an Altair 183c and use it with a Altair edf60 and the celestron edge hd8, I’m happy with the results I get although with hind sight should have went with a cooled camera, there is a lot of amp glow with the 183c but with calibration with darks, dark flats and flat I’m able to take this out. only been doing this for Five years now and still learning, but it’s a great hobby., when the weather plays along especially here in Scotland. |
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You can't go wrong with a 2600, either mono or color. It blows away all smaller zwo cameras. And APS-C is the biggest camera that gets full coverage on the Edge 8. I also use it on my WO Star71. If you are doing color, get the Duo. It's basically a built in OAG, which greatly simplifies backfocus. |
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Mike Miller: I was also thinking about the Duo but this will probably not work with the Edge 8. The diameter might be too small for the guiding cam. |
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| I was wondering about the Duo - so the guide camera gets inside the image circle OK on the EdgeHD8? I was concerned about the non-adjustability of it. |
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| I'd think the 294MC would be a much better match to the native focal length of the C8 that the 2600MC and the FOV isn't that restrictive. |
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Opinions will vary of course. But if cost is not the limiting factor, then the 2600mc over the 294mc all day, any day. I use my 2600mc on both my Edge 8 and Redcat 71. If need be, you can always down sample the Edge 8 and drizzle the Redcat when needed. Just make sure to always dither your runs. Your gallery is definitely convincing. Thanks for the reply! Definitely gonna consider. |
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| This is quite a handy calculator which can tell you if a telescope/camera combination is going to under- or over- sample:https://www.bintel.com.au/tools/astronomy-calculator In this case the 2600MC will oversample x1.5 unless you include the 0.7 reducer in which case it is spot on. The 294MC is less over-sampling without the reducer. Another, even cheaper, option is the 533MC which has the same pixel size as the 2600 but only 14bit ADC (like the 294) compared to the 16bit on the 2600MC - but smaller sensor and square image is not to everyone's taste. |
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I use the 2600MC with an EdgeHD 8 just like you are considering, and like that pairing a lot. I do not have the duo, so I use an OAG, which works well both with and without the Celestron reducer. I also use the 2600mc on my WO Z73. I have been considering the 2600mm to get into true narrow band imaging, but haven't yet pulled that trigger. |
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I've never used the 2600, but I do have the 294MC and 294MM, as well as the Edge 8 and the RedCat (SpaceCat variant), and I have had zero complaints with either camera connected to either scope. I also wouldn't worry about amp glow either, your darks will take care of them. |
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Stephen Lutz: I know someone that has a pre-release Duo and has been using it on a C-6 (1500mm). The extra chip fits inside the 48mm threads. To use this you might need to hit up Agena Astro for some specific adapters. I should have specified that you must have a 2" visual back. The stock 1.25" one will not work. The threads on the Duo are m48, so as long as your image path is at least 48mm all the way through, you will be fine. I have not actually tried this on my Edge8 with the focal reducer (1400mm), though. Also I shoot mono and have a filter wheel, so I didn't have a way to try this. |
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Mike Lethbridge: My 2600mm doesn't have any amp glow at all. It really fixes all the struggles people had with the 1600 over the years. |
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Andrew Rambaut: Awesome! This is perfect info thank you so much 🙏🏼 |
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| I use the ASI2600MC with my Edge 8 HD and it works really well. I tend to use it in Bin2 mode with the Edge and Bin1 when I pair it with my WO FLT 91. Although having said that my recent sessions have been at Bin1 when I use the 0.7X reducer on the Edge. Its a great pairing, go for the ASI2600. |
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Hayden O'Brien:Andrew Rambaut: Would add that I don’t mind over-sampling because there are no refraction spikes so BlurXterminator works wonders. Or, as another reply notes, bin 2x when not using the reducer. The 2600 is the best all round I think and worth the extra. |
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It is all about sampling and targets. The 294 has 4.6 micron pixels, the ideal focal would be around 700mm for deep sky and maybe 1500mm for planets. If you use the C8" at f/10, full 2000 mm focal, you would be oversampling with the 294, which for planets is still ok, but not recommended for deep sky. Oversampling will be affected by bad seeing conditions. With the 2600 (I have it, it is a fantastic camera), the above scenario is even more extreme, as pixels are even smaller at 3.8 microns. So, in theory, the 2600 is not recommended for long focals. I use it up to 925mm. The 250mm of the redcat 51 would be on the under sample side, but still ok. Ideally, you should get at least a ASI2400, 6 micron pixels, or even a bigger pixel camera for imaging at 2000 mm. (I use a 2400 on my EHD8") . Alternatively, you could bin on small pixels sensors. That's how the theory goes concerning sampling, under normal seeing conditions. But seeing conditions, or other factors, may affect your images more than sampling. You might find the link below useful https://diffractionlimited.com/matching-camera-optics/ |
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Mike Miller:Mike Lethbridge: Sorry, I should have been clearer. I meant amp glow on the 294. |
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I have the 2600 and the edge hd8. You mention flexibility. The edge will give you the option of getting a hyperstar which I have. The 2600 is a great match for the hyperstar setup. Cheers, Darrell |
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I can't comment on how well it pairs with a redcat, but I use the asi2600MC Duo on my 9.25 Edge HD with Hyperstar and it does very well. Without hyperstar or the .7 reducer, you might be oversampled according to the calculators. If you are still considering it, these cameras are on sale right now and you can save hundreds of dollars. Notes ASI2600mc General 1. There is zero amp glow, even on 10 minute exposures (haven't tested longer than that) 2. Much less noise that the 294 (my previous camera) 3. Only the slightest vignetting is experienced with this combination, but nothing is fully occluded, so taking good flats fixes that. 4. It has an adjustable tilt plate, so if your sensor is tilted (very common in these days), you can correct it without a cage. 5. Make sure you have plenty of data space on your imaging computer as well as your processing pc. My subs are over 60MB each and when I drizzle, the Pixinsight WBPP stacked masters are often between 1-3GB Duo Specific 1. Having built-in guiding in the Duo is a game changer for simplification. I don't have to worry about the flexture of a guidescope or factoring OAG into backfocus. And if you plan to add a Hyperstar to your EdgeHD (a Necessity for wide-feild) OAG creates additional obstruction from the camera. Having a DUO eliminates this. 2. On nights of average seeing, my guiding RMS error is usually between 0.3 and 0.7 on my EQ6R mount. My ARC seconds per pixel is 1.5, so thats more than adequate 3. The guiding basically works like OAG, so remember that if you rotate your camera during a session, you are also rotating the guide camera and will need to recalibrate in PHD2 (or whatever sw you use) or else its going to do very crazy things. And If you image in the native focal length It is likely that you will have to rotate the field sometimes to ensure good guide stars land on that part of the image circle. |
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Oversampling is highly overrated imo. Astrobin is full of images of EdgeHD 11" or C11s with 2600mm or mc Pro. It may have been a big deal with less sensitive and more noisey sensors of the past, but modern CMOS sensors have very little read noise, you can oversample with little downside. You can bin to whatver works best for you after aquisition if the image feels too soft/noisey. But if your seeing conditions were particularly good, then you have the added benefit of preserving those extra details that evening. My FWHM ranges from 1.1-2.0", with most nights in the 1.3-1.7" range. My sampling rate is 0.375 "/pixel. If money is no object, I think the 2600mc is definitely the way to go. |
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Jason Fleming: Hi Jason,Looking at the drawings on the ZWO web site it looks like the 2600MC Duo requires an 44mm image circle to fully encompass the extra guide camera. This is basically a full-frame image circle I think. I guess you might be able to get away with a smaller image circle and get enough of the guide sensor in the image circle to see stars for guiding. But without knowing what the useable image circle needs to be I have been reticent getting this camera - none of my scopes are designed for full frame. The Hyperstar 11 specs suggest it has 35 mm image circle so if the Duo is useable with that, then that is useful to know. |
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| Absolutely loving the comments from @Andrew Rambaut and @Jason Fleming on this. I have the non edge C925 and ordered the ASI2600MC DUO with the Hyperstar 925 V4. Thanks guys |
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Andrew Rambaut: Edge HD 8 has a 44mm wide image circle, technically 42mm because of the T-Adapter that celestron designed 2mm smaller than the baffle tube (I hate it too, don't worry), however due to the size of my full-frame sensor, I get vignetting on the corners and where my OAG is, a shadow appears. Two flats with my old A7III, same sensor as my 2400. The following flat shows the F/7 FOV at full-frame W/O the OAG.  The next flat shows the F/10 FOV With the OAG.  At F/10 you get less vignetting and a flatter field at the expense of FOV & FR. The Duo will work just fine on the Edge 8. As for me, I've only got my ASI2400 hooked up to the HD8 because I'm upgrading to an SCA260 in the next year or so- massive 80mm image circle. |
