Salvatore Iovene:
The last 365 IOTDs were awarded to 205 distinct astrophotographers. A bit more if you include collaborations. What more do you want, really? Several people have won a few IOTDs... I wonder... is it possible that they keep putting out amazing images, as an explanation? Isn't that supporting the fact that IOTD/TP works well, by awarding great images regardless of who's submitting them?
Well, the other side of that coin are that 5 photographers were awarded 56 of those IOTD's. Wolfgang Promper has 17 of those. To be clear, his work is amazing and yes, the work of these 56 awards that I am referencing is very good. And some are collabs... However, there are hundreds if not thousands of images that are equally worthy of IOTD that fail to level up in your current judging process.
When you make a comment of "what more do you want, really?" it feels like you are just doubling down on the status quo. As I mentioned, I lost interest in IOTD a long time ago. I brought these concerns up to you privately in December of last year and you appreciated my feedback but ultimately dismissed my concerns and said you didnt have a problem with this disproportionate distribution of IOTD. I think the answers to your question has been posted within this thread.
It's your business Sal, you can certainly do what you want. While the feedback from folks feels like an attack, or unjust criticism... people do genuinely want to help astrobin be better. IOTD is a major feature of astrobin... perhaps your flagship product... however, to many of us, it just lacks credibility in its current form.
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Based on the example given of maple syrup contest among producers, I suspect the root problem of this post is a “missed” marketing on AB IOTD… but I may be wrong, in which case I apologize.
CS
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Hello @Bill Long - Dark Matters Astrophotography , We dont know each other. I started to write a quite long message to argue, with my french english, but I stopped regarding your last messages. A lot of things are wrong and sound agressive to me.
I started on AB in 2017 from zero. I have been a submitter for many years, a reviewer and now a judge in IOTD process. I can Witness the efforts made by Salvatore to improove things. IMO there is no other plateform where such a job is done for astrophotography. Of course, nothing is perfect and can improove, but there is a way to tell things, gently.
If you don't like the way IOTDs are selected, feel free to not submiting your images or even to go to FB or Instagram.
Otherwise, take you scope, process, share images and keep on in a constructive way.
No answer requested,
JF
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Since there are probably thousands of people on this site how about a poll to see if they care about their images being IOTD? and why?
Would be an interesting statistic
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Chris White- Overcast Observatory:
It's your business Sal, you can certainly do what you want. While the feedback from folks feels like an attack, or unjust criticism... people do genuinely want to help astrobin be better. IOTD is a major feature of astrobin... perhaps your flagship product... however, to many of us, it just lacks credibility in its current form.
I think Chris said it very well. There are so many issues with it, starting from the indefensible pretense that it is not a contest which literally no one buys, the same arguments against making meaningful improvements that would actually be reflective of the vast change in how imaging is done today and the nature of the imaging community that are in conflict with how literally everything else in the world works. If the argument is one of time, these changes can be made over a much more reasonable time period. But what do I know?
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Bill Long - Dark Matters Astrophotography:
Hello all,
This will be a pretty short post.
I have seen M78 and NGC1333 as IOTD so many times over the last few months, that it seems to me that the judges and folks on the side of the voting systems have a massive preference for dusty data.
I went and looked and narrowband imaging has as massive lack of representation on IOTD. I have also seen imagers posting data with the dust stretched beyond reason, being more commonplace.
Are folks pandering to this trend? Why are we not seeing galaxies at all yet? We are in Galaxy season!
I think Astrobin suffers from a judge panel that prefers processed images, if they show enough dust, at all other costs, for them.
Let me know your thoughts on this matter.
-Bill
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YecBv-5JXmQ |
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Timothy Martin:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YecBv-5JXmQ
Talk, it's only talk
Arguments, agreements
Advice, answers
Articulate announcements
It's only talk
Talk, it's only talk
Babble, burble, banter
Bicker, bicker, bicker
Brouhaha, balderdash, ballyhoo
It's only talk
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Bill Long - Dark Matters Astrophotography:
Hello all,
This will be a pretty short post.
I have seen M78 and NGC1333 as IOTD so many times over the last few months, that it seems to me that the judges and folks on the side of the voting systems have a massive preference for dusty data.
I went and looked and narrowband imaging has as massive lack of representation on IOTD. I have also seen imagers posting data with the dust stretched beyond reason, being more commonplace.
Are folks pandering to this trend? Why are we not seeing galaxies at all yet? We are in Galaxy season!
I think Astrobin suffers from a judge panel that prefers processed images, if they show enough dust, at all other costs, for them.
Let me know your thoughts on this matter.
-Bill
hi
I started in AB around January 2024 (100% ) and i have won 2 IOTD's
one with galaxy ngc1055 and the another one with nebula IC2220 ( minimum dust )
i don't know almost anyone in AB . I'm an example that the whole system ( submitters, reviewers system and judges work well )
lets have fun and look at the sky .
clear skies for all
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Not from you backyard so I would say Arun is right.
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Brian Diaz:
Bill Long - Dark Matters Astrophotography:
Hello all,
This will be a pretty short post.
I have seen M78 and NGC1333 as IOTD so many times over the last few months, that it seems to me that the judges and folks on the side of the voting systems have a massive preference for dusty data.
I went and looked and narrowband imaging has as massive lack of representation on IOTD. I have also seen imagers posting data with the dust stretched beyond reason, being more commonplace.
Are folks pandering to this trend? Why are we not seeing galaxies at all yet? We are in Galaxy season!
I think Astrobin suffers from a judge panel that prefers processed images, if they show enough dust, at all other costs, for them.
Let me know your thoughts on this matter.
-Bill
hi
I started in AB around January 2024 (100% ) and i have won 2 IOTD's
one with galaxy ngc1055 and the another one with nebula IC2220 ( minimum dust )
i don't know almost anyone in AB . I'm an example that the whole system ( submitters, reviewers system and judges work well )
lets have fun and look at the sky .
clear skies for all
I would say thay the only evidence you have provided is that the system works for YOU. And this is what my issue is. There are people that assume that, because it works for them, it is the perfect system. When it realistically is meaningless for an increasing number of people.
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andrea tasselli:
Not from you backyard so I would say Arun is right.
my backyard is SQM 16.84 you know what that mean ( let me tell you , you can read a book next to telescope without any help) and won nomination too
https://www.astrobin.com/0reyll/B/?nc=collection&nce=29012 |
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Brian Diaz:
andrea tasselli:
Not from you backyard so I would say Arun is right.
my backyard is SQM 16.84 you know what that mean ( let me tell you , you can read a book next to telescope without any help) and won nomination too
https://www.astrobin.com/0reyll/B/?nc=collection&nce=29012
and this was travelling( 2 hours integration with osc camera . nomination top pick too
https://www.astrobin.com/rfrkgb/?nc=collection&nce=28616 |
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please the system work well and im super happy with ASTROBIN
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Brian Diaz:
my backyard is SQM 16.84 you know what that mean ( let me tell you , you can read a book next to telescope without any help) and won nomination too
https://www.astrobin.com/0reyll/B/?nc=collection&nce=29012
Reminds mine but mine comes with clouds
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andrea tasselli:
Brian Diaz:
my backyard is SQM 16.84 you know what that mean ( let me tell you , you can read a book next to telescope without any help) and won nomination too
https://www.astrobin.com/0reyll/B/?nc=collection&nce=29012
Reminds mine but mine comes with clouds
and humidity 89% ( SOUTH FLORIDA)
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Brian Diaz:
and humidity 89% ( SOUTH FLORIDA)
*Here is condensing and falling from the skies. And it is windy, always windy. I dream of the night with no clouds, no lights and no wind but apparently the gods decided that you can only pick one...
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Arun H:
Brian Diaz:
Bill Long - Dark Matters Astrophotography:
Hello all,
This will be a pretty short post.
I have seen M78 and NGC1333 as IOTD so many times over the last few months, that it seems to me that the judges and folks on the side of the voting systems have a massive preference for dusty data.
I went and looked and narrowband imaging has as massive lack of representation on IOTD. I have also seen imagers posting data with the dust stretched beyond reason, being more commonplace.
Are folks pandering to this trend? Why are we not seeing galaxies at all yet? We are in Galaxy season!
I think Astrobin suffers from a judge panel that prefers processed images, if they show enough dust, at all other costs, for them.
Let me know your thoughts on this matter.
-Bill
hi
I started in AB around January 2024 (100% ) and i have won 2 IOTD's
one with galaxy ngc1055 and the another one with nebula IC2220 ( minimum dust )
i don't know almost anyone in AB . I'm an example that the whole system ( submitters, reviewers system and judges work well )
lets have fun and look at the sky .
clear skies for all
I would say thay the only evidence you have provided is that the system works for YOU. And this is what my issue is. There are people that assume that, because it works for them, it is the perfect system. When it realistically is meaningless for an increasing number of people.
Well. In a way you mean the system did not work for you.
I had a look at your galery. Nice images. Some of which are well deserved Top Pick nominated or top picks.
Hundreds of images enter AB every day, a Top Pick is already something like you are in the 1% of the best .
I have posted here world class images, some of them the worldwide bests ever of some objects. Check my galery.
Sometimes they did not get nothing. This is the game. No injuries.
You don't want to play serious game with astrophotographers ? FB, X, Insta, Flickr (🥴 for this one) are free and will give you a lot of Wows
clear skies
JF
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Chris White- Overcast Observatory:
Salvatore Iovene:
The last 365 IOTDs were awarded to 205 distinct astrophotographers. A bit more if you include collaborations. What more do you want, really? Several people have won a few IOTDs... I wonder... is it possible that they keep putting out amazing images, as an explanation? Isn't that supporting the fact that IOTD/TP works well, by awarding great images regardless of who's submitting them?
Well, the other side of that coin are that 5 photographers were awarded 56 of those IOTD's. Wolfgang Promper has 17 of those. To be clear, his work is amazing and yes, the work of these 56 awards that I am referencing is very good. And some are collabs... However, there are hundreds if not thousands of images that are equally worthy of IOTD that fail to level up in your current judging process.
When you make a comment of "what more do you want, really?" it feels like you are just doubling down on the status quo. As I mentioned, I lost interest in IOTD a long time ago. I brought these concerns up to you privately in December of last year and you appreciated my feedback but ultimately dismissed my concerns and said you didnt have a problem with this disproportionate distribution of IOTD. I think the answers to your question has been posted within this thread.
It's your business Sal, you can certainly do what you want. While the feedback from folks feels like an attack, or unjust criticism... people do genuinely want to help astrobin be better. IOTD is a major feature of astrobin... perhaps your flagship product... however, to many of us, it just lacks credibility in its current form.
Agree 100%. This isn't an attack on anyone rather the opposite. I think the process can be greatly improved to turn it into a positive thing in the community.
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Jeffbax Velocicaptor:
Well. In a way you mean the system did not work for you.
Well, I would say that a lot of us making the point that the system is in need of improvement are not newbies, but experienced imagers with good galleries and badges to our credit. Chris White, for example, who has posted here, has an IOTD, many Top Picks, and many TPNs. Clearly, he can make a case that the system is working for him. Fantastically, someone could say. Perhaps it is the fact that people who do have IOTDs, TPs, and TPNs and have been doing this for a long time are among the people saying the system is in need of change is evidence that it is in need of such change.
By the way, I deleted my FB account a long time ago and don't have an X or Instagram or TikTok account. And if I really was going after likes, I'd probably follow a lot more people on Astrobin and like their images versus the 30 or so people I follow today.
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Arun H:
Brian Diaz:
Bill Long - Dark Matters Astrophotography:
Hello all,
This will be a pretty short post.
I have seen M78 and NGC1333 as IOTD so many times over the last few months, that it seems to me that the judges and folks on the side of the voting systems have a massive preference for dusty data.
I went and looked and narrowband imaging has as massive lack of representation on IOTD. I have also seen imagers posting data with the dust stretched beyond reason, being more commonplace.
Are folks pandering to this trend? Why are we not seeing galaxies at all yet? We are in Galaxy season!
I think Astrobin suffers from a judge panel that prefers processed images, if they show enough dust, at all other costs, for them.
Let me know your thoughts on this matter.
-Bill
hi
I started in AB around January 2024 (100% ) and i have won 2 IOTD's
one with galaxy ngc1055 and the another one with nebula IC2220 ( minimum dust )
i don't know almost anyone in AB . I'm an example that the whole system ( submitters, reviewers system and judges work well )
lets have fun and look at the sky .
clear skies for all
I would say thay the only evidence you have provided is that the system works for YOU. And this is what my issue is. There are people that assume that, because it works for them, it is the perfect system. When it realistically is meaningless for an increasing number of people.
The increasing number of people that find it meaningless is very real. I've had many discussions with folks about this and its more common to hear people say they have no faith in it or don't believe that they stand a chance in the current process.
I've updated the topic to reflect the need for improvement.
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Bill Long - Dark Matters Astrophotography:
Hello all,
This will be a pretty short post.
I have seen M78 and NGC1333 as IOTD so many times over the last few months, that it seems to me that the judges and folks on the side of the voting systems have a massive preference for dusty data.
I went and looked and narrowband imaging has as massive lack of representation on IOTD. I have also seen imagers posting data with the dust stretched beyond reason, being more commonplace.
Are folks pandering to this trend? Why are we not seeing galaxies at all yet? We are in Galaxy season!
I think Astrobin suffers from a judge panel that prefers processed images, if they show enough dust, at all other costs, for them.
Let me know your thoughts on this matter.
-Bill
"I criticize by creation, not by finding fault"
- Cicero -
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Bill Long - Dark Matters Astrophotography:
Hello all,
This will be a pretty short post.
I have seen M78 and NGC1333 as IOTD so many times over the last few months, that it seems to me that the judges and folks on the side of the voting systems have a massive preference for dusty data.
I went and looked and narrowband imaging has as massive lack of representation on IOTD. I have also seen imagers posting data with the dust stretched beyond reason, being more commonplace.
Are folks pandering to this trend? Why are we not seeing galaxies at all yet? We are in Galaxy season!
I think Astrobin suffers from a judge panel that prefers processed images, if they show enough dust, at all other costs, for them.
Let me know your thoughts on this matter.
-Bill
"I criticize by creation, not by finding fault"
- Cicero -
Possible solutions have been provided in this thread and prior to this thread in offline discussions.
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Arun H:
Well, I would say that a lot of us making the point that the system is in need of improvement
Hi, a agree the system still needs improvements and am happy to see the tittle of this thread has changed into a more contructive statement. I am not saying that IOTD process is perfect. It cannot be perfect and another one will not either like all human based process. This is normal and should not raise agressive remarks. This was my point.
Just a few days ago, Salvatore increased the number of slots for reviewers to bring more diversity in TPs. We had a problem in image diversity and noticed that some very good images could not pass TPN level. It seems things are going better. Let see. It might take a few days as the entire process takes time.
Clear skies.
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20.43
6.68
7.56
13.12
11.91
10.92
2.11
11.02
7.78
