HAE69B - AstroBin

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Reg Pratt:
Have you considered the CEM70? Its a time proven mount, has the performance you need, and is considerably cheaper. IMO the biggest advantage to strain-wave mounts is their portability which means nothing on an observatory pier. I see no reason to pay so much extra for the HAE69 when you could have the CEM70 or even a CQM350 for less money without sacrificing performance.

That makes sense. The fellow that runs DSP Remote (remote imaging site) just told me that strain wave mounts are not designed to be used remotely. I don't understand what he means as how would a mount know, if operated via USB, whether or not it was being controlled locally or remotely?

8.77 Jerry Gerber #... · view views
Hi Reg, Might you know what the difference is between the CEM70-NUC and the CEM70EC-NUC? I can't seem to find the difference in the spec sheets. I can guess that the "E" stands for Encoder, but the specs and description say nothing about encoders... Thanks, Jerry Like

8.67 Reg Pratt #... · view views
There are a many people around the world running observatories with the old mindset that if it isn't SB or AP it wont work remote. No one will argue that those mounts would be the best choices if they fit the budget but there are countless examples of people running consumer grade mounts remotely with great success. I personally have been running the cem70 remote for the last 8 months now without a single issue and I'm not the only cem70 at this site. Generally if a mount is reliable and has homing sensors it will work in a remote setting. I think all the strain-wave mounts on the market have homing sensors but seeing as they are pretty new to the market I don't know how confident one can be about their long term reliability just yet. The CEM70 on the other hand has been a workhorse for quite some time now. The CQM350 is brand new but between the reviews, user feedback, and track record of the EQ6 and EQ8 I see little reason to doubt its reliability. It wouldn't be a bad idea to consider going one step up and look at 100lbs class mounts such as the CEM120 and EQ8 because a 7" refractor isnt exactly a small telescope. Like

8.67

#...

There are a many people around the world running observatories with the old mindset that if it isn't SB or AP it wont work remote. No one will argue that those mounts would be the best choices if they fit the budget but there are countless examples of people running consumer grade mounts remotely with great success. I personally have been running the cem70 remote for the last 8 months now without a single issue and I'm not the only cem70 at this site.

Generally if a mount is reliable and has homing sensors it will work in a remote setting. I think all the strain-wave mounts on the market have homing sensors but seeing as they are pretty new to the market I don't know how confident one can be about their long term reliability just yet. The CEM70 on the other hand has been a workhorse for quite some time now. The CQM350 is brand new but between the reviews, user feedback, and track record of the EQ6 and EQ8 I see little reason to doubt its reliability.

It wouldn't be a bad idea to consider going one step up and look at 100lbs class mounts such as the CEM120 and EQ8 because a 7" refractor isnt exactly a small telescope.

8.67 Reg Pratt #... · view views
Jerry Gerber: Hi Reg, Might you know what the difference is between the CEM70-NUC and the CEM70EC-NUC? I can't seem to find the difference in the spec sheets. I can guess that the "E" stands for Encoder, but the specs and description say nothing about encoders... Thanks, Jerry The CEM70EC has encoders and from all I've read iOptrons encoders cause more problems then they solve. You'll be guiding anyway so even if they were rock solid they still wouldn't be worth the extra money IMO. Like

8.67

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Jerry Gerber:
Hi Reg,

Might you know what the difference is between the CEM70-NUC and the CEM70EC-NUC? I can't seem to find the difference in the spec sheets. I can guess that the "E" stands for Encoder, but the specs and description say nothing about encoders...

Thanks,
Jerry

The CEM70EC has encoders and from all I've read iOptrons encoders cause more problems then they solve. You'll be guiding anyway so even if they were rock solid they still wouldn't be worth the extra money IMO.

0.00 Ryan Wierckx #... · view views · 1 like
For a remote setup I would recommend a traditional GEM rather than a strain wave mount. As Reg mentioned, their only real benefit is having less size and weight over traditional mounts. For a remote system, you want MORE size and weight rather than less, to improve stability, or at the very least, weight is a non-issue. If you are attached to iOptron, the CEM series, I hear, is excellent. I managed to find a second hand AP 900 GTO for around the same price. As for polar alignment, you'll only do it once as you mentioned. A device akin to the QHY Polemaster makes it pretty simple with most mounts. It is further aided by the fact there will be other mounts right next to yours already on the pole, so you can get pretty close just by eye. I am also at DSP Remote - Observatory 8. You'll love it. Like

0.00

Ryan Wierckx

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· 1 like

For a remote setup I would recommend a traditional GEM rather than a strain wave mount. As Reg mentioned, their only real benefit is having less size and weight over traditional mounts. For a remote system, you want MORE size and weight rather than less, to improve stability, or at the very least, weight is a non-issue.

If you are attached to iOptron, the CEM series, I hear, is excellent. I managed to find a second hand AP 900 GTO for around the same price.

As for polar alignment, you'll only do it once as you mentioned. A device akin to the QHY Polemaster makes it pretty simple with most mounts. It is further aided by the fact there will be other mounts right next to yours already on the pole, so you can get pretty close just by eye.

I am also at DSP Remote - Observatory 8. You'll love it.

8.77 Jerry Gerber #... · view views
Hi Ryan, Yes, I don't know what I was thinking. There's no reason to use a strain wave mount in a permanent setup. I think because I've been using the AM5 for the past 16 months and really enjoying the results I've been getting, I forgot that the whole reason I got it was for portability. I am definitely not attached to Ioptron. Ed over at DSP Remote thinks that the Ioptron mounts are lousy and he is discouraging me from getting one. The only decision I've made is that I want to install a refractor, either a 130, 151 or 185mm aperture. I could get a a 1micro1000 if I want to spend that much, but I am open to looking at the EQ8R or the CEM70. Like

8.77

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Hi Ryan,

Yes, I don't know what I was thinking. There's no reason to use a strain wave mount in a permanent setup. I think because I've been using the AM5 for the past 16 months and really enjoying the results I've been getting, I forgot that the whole reason I got it was for portability.

I am definitely not attached to Ioptron. Ed over at DSP Remote thinks that the Ioptron mounts are lousy and he is discouraging me from getting one. The only decision I've made is that I want to install a refractor, either a 130, 151 or 185mm aperture.

I could get a a 1micro1000 if I want to spend that much, but I am open to looking at the EQ8R or the CEM70.

8.67 Reg Pratt #... · view views
If premium mounts are on the table then SB will be the best bang for your buck. And MX+ would suit a 7" refractor well. The Eq8 while not considered a premium mount has a proven track record in observatories all over the world and can be had brand new at a fraction of the cost of an Mx+. You may also want to consider a JTW GTR. Their whole mission is premium performance without the premium price. They have an active discord server that you can join to ask questions and collect information. I was hesitant to consider them as I had never heard of them but after being in the discord for the last 6 months, talking to and hearing from other users and the owner himself, I'll be purchasing a mount from them in the hear future. Like

8.67

#...

If premium mounts are on the table then SB will be the best bang for your buck. And MX+ would suit a 7" refractor well. The Eq8 while not considered a premium mount has a proven track record in observatories all over the world and can be had brand new at a fraction of the cost of an Mx+.

You may also want to consider a JTW GTR. Their whole mission is premium performance without the premium price. They have an active discord server that you can join to ask questions and collect information. I was hesitant to consider them as I had never heard of them but after being in the discord for the last 6 months, talking to and hearing from other users and the owner himself, I'll be purchasing a mount from them in the hear future.

7.12 Ashraf AbuSara #... · view views
Jerry Gerber: Hello! I've been discussing this mount with a few owners and I am hearing mixed opinions. I am considering setting up either a 130mm refractor or a 185mm refractor at a remote imaging hosting site. If I go with the smaller refractor I'll put it on the AM5. I already have this combination and it works great. But if I go with the larger refractor I'll need a mount that can support more weight. I love strain-wave mounts, so I am trying to find the very best one that can support nearly 50 lbs. I am looking at the HAE69B. It has the electronics for WiFi on the mount itself, so no handset is needed. That's an improvement. I am also wondering if having an encoder on only one axis makes much of a difference; I'll be autoguiding so I don't know if an encoder will help with that. If it would, I'd get it, if not, I won't. I have been using the HAE69ec(b version with iMate) exclusively for the last 5 months. I have an AG Optical FA12 12.5" OTA that weighs about 50-55lbs after factoring in accessories. I have it in my backyard so I can't comment on its remote performance, but I can say the mount has been consistent after I dialed in the settings in the ASIair, which essentially is PHD2 light. It has been a very solid mount. I think my guiding is largley limited by my seeing. On good nights it tracks at about 0.3-0.4". On average nights 0.35-0.5". The value of the encoder on the RA is not for using it unguided, because I don't recommend using it that way. But if you used the AM5 you are familiar with the need to use fast exposures for guiding, no more than 1 second. It can be challenging to do that if you have a small FOV/ high focal length especially when tracking galaxies. With the encoder on the RA I have found that it guides very well even with exposures upto 3-4 seconds, which means you can guide on more stars and fainter stars. Jerry Gerber: But what I am hearing from several people is that though the machining quality is excellent, polar alignment is not very responsive. I'm now able to polar align the AM5 in less than 10 minutes, and get it under 1" on both altitude and Azimuth. I know that if I set it up at a permanent installation I'll only be polar aligning once or maybe several times over a couple of years, but I still would prefer not to struggle with that. Polar alignment has been extremely easy for me, just like the AM5. I have my HAE69ec mounted on the iOptron tripier 360a and I can PA in 5-10 minutes from scratch. More importantly it holds very well from night to night even when I bump it because I cover it with the TG 365 every night with the OTA, and it does not change much. Any comments one which strain-wave mount would work well with the Askar 185 triplet? Thanks! Jerry I have not used a 185 triplet, but my AGO FA12 is both heavier, and has a smaller image scale, with a center of mass that is farther out from the mount rotation axis than the Askar 185 apo. I'd imagine if it can handle my large AG Optical Truss, it should handle the Askar 185, but that is just an assumption. The last 8 images I have published on my AB were all captured with the HAE69ec and the AG Optical FA12. Edited ... Like

7.12

Ashraf AbuSara

#...

Jerry Gerber:
Hello!

I've been discussing this mount with a few owners and I am hearing mixed opinions. I am considering setting up either a 130mm refractor or a 185mm refractor at a remote imaging hosting site. If I go with the smaller refractor I'll put it on the AM5. I already have this combination and it works great. But if I go with the larger refractor I'll need a mount that can support more weight. I love strain-wave mounts, so I am trying to find the very best one that can support nearly 50 lbs.

I am looking at the HAE69B. It has the electronics for WiFi on the mount itself, so no handset is needed. That's an improvement. I am also wondering if having an encoder on only one axis makes much of a difference; I'll be autoguiding so I don't know if an encoder will help with that. If it would, I'd get it, if not, I won't.

I have been using the HAE69ec(b version with iMate) exclusively for the last 5 months. I have an AG Optical FA12 12.5" OTA that weighs about 50-55lbs after factoring in accessories. I have it in my backyard so I can't comment on its remote performance, but I can say the mount has been consistent after I dialed in the settings in the ASIair, which essentially is PHD2 light.

It has been a very solid mount. I think my guiding is largley limited by my seeing. On good nights it tracks at about 0.3-0.4". On average nights 0.35-0.5". The value of the encoder on the RA is not for using it unguided, because I don't recommend using it that way. But if you used the AM5 you are familiar with the need to use fast exposures for guiding, no more than 1 second. It can be challenging to do that if you have a small FOV/ high focal length especially when tracking galaxies. With the encoder on the RA I have found that it guides very well even with exposures upto 3-4 seconds, which means you can guide on more stars and fainter stars.

Jerry Gerber:
But what I am hearing from several people is that though the machining quality is excellent, polar alignment is not very responsive. I'm now able to polar align the AM5 in less than 10 minutes, and get it under 1" on both altitude and Azimuth. I know that if I set it up at a permanent installation I'll only be polar aligning once or maybe several times over a couple of years, but I still would prefer not to struggle with that.

Polar alignment has been extremely easy for me, just like the AM5. I have my HAE69ec mounted on the iOptron tripier 360a and I can PA in 5-10 minutes from scratch. More importantly it holds very well from night to night even when I bump it because I cover it with the TG 365 every night with the OTA, and it does not change much.

Any comments one which strain-wave mount would work well with the Askar 185 triplet?

Thanks!
Jerry

I have not used a 185 triplet, but my AGO FA12 is both heavier, and has a smaller image scale, with a center of mass that is farther out from the mount rotation axis than the Askar 185 apo. I'd imagine if it can handle my large AG Optical Truss, it should handle the Askar 185, but that is just an assumption.

The last 8 images I have published on my AB were all captured with the HAE69ec and the AG Optical FA12.

Edited ...

8.77 Jerry Gerber #... · view views · 1 like
Thanks Ashraf! Jerry Like

7.12 Ashraf AbuSara #... · view views
Jerry Gerber: Thanks Ashraf! Jerry Happy to help! BTW if you do decide to get the HAE69, I don't recommend the iMate version at all. You lose the ability to connect to it via Wifi to control the mount. It only supports Wifi to connect to the iMate. Instead I recommend you get the C version, which does not have the imate. It also offers a USB-C port for direct control of the mount directly on the saddle. That is of course, unless you are completely happy with using the iMate remotely with Ekos / Kstars. Like

7.12

Ashraf AbuSara

#...

Jerry Gerber:
Thanks Ashraf!
Jerry

Happy to help! BTW if you do decide to get the HAE69, I don't recommend the iMate version at all. You lose the ability to connect to it via Wifi to control the mount. It only supports Wifi to connect to the iMate. Instead I recommend you get the C version, which does not have the imate. It also offers a USB-C port for direct control of the mount directly on the saddle.

That is of course, unless you are completely happy with using the iMate remotely with Ekos / Kstars.

11.02 Bill Long - Dark Matters Astrophotography #... · view views
Ryan Wierckx: For a remote setup I would recommend a traditional GEM rather than a strain wave mount. As Reg mentioned, their only real benefit is having less size and weight over traditional mounts. For a remote system, you want MORE size and weight rather than less, to improve stability, or at the very least, weight is a non-issue. If you are attached to iOptron, the CEM series, I hear, is excellent. I managed to find a second hand AP 900 GTO for around the same price. As for polar alignment, you'll only do it once as you mentioned. A device akin to the QHY Polemaster makes it pretty simple with most mounts. It is further aided by the fact there will be other mounts right next to yours already on the pole, so you can get pretty close just by eye. I am also at DSP Remote - Observatory 8. You'll love it. I don't see a problem with the CEM70 recommendation either. It has a homing switch in it as well, which is very nice to have for remote usage. If a new 10 Micron isn't in the cards, going used for an AP mount or other premium offering is a good strategy as well. I'm also in Building 8 at DSP Remote. My rig is directly south of Ryan's. Like

11.02

#...

Ryan Wierckx:
For a remote setup I would recommend a traditional GEM rather than a strain wave mount. As Reg mentioned, their only real benefit is having less size and weight over traditional mounts. For a remote system, you want MORE size and weight rather than less, to improve stability, or at the very least, weight is a non-issue.

If you are attached to iOptron, the CEM series, I hear, is excellent. I managed to find a second hand AP 900 GTO for around the same price.

As for polar alignment, you'll only do it once as you mentioned. A device akin to the QHY Polemaster makes it pretty simple with most mounts. It is further aided by the fact there will be other mounts right next to yours already on the pole, so you can get pretty close just by eye.

I am also at DSP Remote - Observatory 8. You'll love it.

I don't see a problem with the CEM70 recommendation either. It has a homing switch in it as well, which is very nice to have for remote usage. If a new 10 Micron isn't in the cards, going used for an AP mount or other premium offering is a good strategy as well.

I'm also in Building 8 at DSP Remote. My rig is directly south of Ryan's.

8.77 Jerry Gerber #... · view views
Bill Long - Dark Matters Astrophotography: Ryan Wierckx: For a remote setup I would recommend a traditional GEM rather than a strain wave mount. As Reg mentioned, their only real benefit is having less size and weight over traditional mounts. For a remote system, you want MORE size and weight rather than less, to improve stability, or at the very least, weight is a non-issue. If you are attached to iOptron, the CEM series, I hear, is excellent. I managed to find a second hand AP 900 GTO for around the same price. As for polar alignment, you'll only do it once as you mentioned. A device akin to the QHY Polemaster makes it pretty simple with most mounts. It is further aided by the fact there will be other mounts right next to yours already on the pole, so you can get pretty close just by eye. I am also at DSP Remote - Observatory 8. You'll love it. I don't see a problem with the CEM70 recommendation either. It has a homing switch in it as well, which is very nice to have for remote usage. If a new 10 Micron isn't in the cards, going used for an AP mount or other premium offering is a good strategy as well. I'm also in Building 8 at DSP Remote. My rig is directly south of Ryan's. Hey Bill and Reg, I am still thinking about whether I want to go remote. I hate flying, and I will have to fly to Tucson and rent a car to get there to setup, test and troubleshoot. On the other hand, no more frustration at trying to image from my backyard when at 5pm the sky is perfectly clear but by 8pm the fog has rolled in (almost a given). If I decide to to it, I will definitely choose DSP Remote. I've had several email discussions with Ed Thomas and he is very knowledgeable. He did say that Ioptron mounts are "garbage" although he said his partner uses them. It seemed like a harsh judgement considering how many fine images I've seen taken with the CEM70. I can easily afford the 10Micron 1000 mount, but am wondering if I should spend that amount. Any other suggestions for an excellent mount for a 130mm or a 185mm refractor? Jerry Like

8.77

#...

Bill Long - Dark Matters Astrophotography:
Ryan Wierckx:
For a remote setup I would recommend a traditional GEM rather than a strain wave mount. As Reg mentioned, their only real benefit is having less size and weight over traditional mounts. For a remote system, you want MORE size and weight rather than less, to improve stability, or at the very least, weight is a non-issue.

If you are attached to iOptron, the CEM series, I hear, is excellent. I managed to find a second hand AP 900 GTO for around the same price.

As for polar alignment, you'll only do it once as you mentioned. A device akin to the QHY Polemaster makes it pretty simple with most mounts. It is further aided by the fact there will be other mounts right next to yours already on the pole, so you can get pretty close just by eye.

I am also at DSP Remote - Observatory 8. You'll love it.

I don't see a problem with the CEM70 recommendation either. It has a homing switch in it as well, which is very nice to have for remote usage. If a new 10 Micron isn't in the cards, going used for an AP mount or other premium offering is a good strategy as well.

I'm also in Building 8 at DSP Remote. My rig is directly south of Ryan's.

Hey Bill and Reg,

I am still thinking about whether I want to go remote. I hate flying, and I will have to fly to Tucson and rent a car to get there to setup, test and troubleshoot. On the other hand, no more frustration at trying to image from my backyard when at 5pm the sky is perfectly clear but by 8pm the fog has rolled in (almost a given).

If I decide to to it, I will definitely choose DSP Remote. I've had several email discussions with Ed Thomas and he is very knowledgeable. He did say that Ioptron mounts are "garbage" although he said his partner uses them. It seemed like a harsh judgement considering how many fine images I've seen taken with the CEM70. I can easily afford the 10Micron 1000 mount, but am wondering if I should spend that amount. Any other suggestions for an excellent mount for a 130mm or a 185mm refractor?

Jerry

6.08 Bob Lockwood #... · view views
Astro-Physics. About as bullet proof and user friendly as it gets. CS is also as good as it gets, call them and they answer any questions you have. I have two, and have used 6 and have never had an issue. 400-600-900-1200, and now an 1100AE and the Mach-1. Edited ... Like

11.02 Bill Long - Dark Matters Astrophotography #... · view views
Jerry Gerber: Bill Long - Dark Matters Astrophotography: Ryan Wierckx: For a remote setup I would recommend a traditional GEM rather than a strain wave mount. As Reg mentioned, their only real benefit is having less size and weight over traditional mounts. For a remote system, you want MORE size and weight rather than less, to improve stability, or at the very least, weight is a non-issue. If you are attached to iOptron, the CEM series, I hear, is excellent. I managed to find a second hand AP 900 GTO for around the same price. As for polar alignment, you'll only do it once as you mentioned. A device akin to the QHY Polemaster makes it pretty simple with most mounts. It is further aided by the fact there will be other mounts right next to yours already on the pole, so you can get pretty close just by eye. I am also at DSP Remote - Observatory 8. You'll love it. I don't see a problem with the CEM70 recommendation either. It has a homing switch in it as well, which is very nice to have for remote usage. If a new 10 Micron isn't in the cards, going used for an AP mount or other premium offering is a good strategy as well. I'm also in Building 8 at DSP Remote. My rig is directly south of Ryan's. Hey Bill and Reg, I am still thinking about whether I want to go remote. I hate flying, and I will have to fly to Tucson and rent a car to get there to setup, test and troubleshoot. On the other hand, no more frustration at trying to image from my backyard when at 5pm the sky is perfectly clear but by 8pm the fog has rolled in (almost a given). If I decide to to it, I will definitely choose DSP Remote. I've had several email discussions with Ed Thomas and he is very knowledgeable. He did say that Ioptron mounts are "garbage" although he said his partner uses them. It seemed like a harsh judgement considering how many fine images I've seen taken with the CEM70. I can easily afford the 10Micron 1000 mount, but am wondering if I should spend that amount. Any other suggestions for an excellent mount for a 130mm or a 185mm refractor? Jerry A 130mm and 185mm refractor are two completely different animals. I strongly urge you to see the size of these things in person. A 130mm refractor isn't that large. A 185mm refractor is extremely large (mostly lengthwise) and will be very heavy in comparison. A proper mount for a 185mm refractor is an AP900/1100 or similar products from other manufacturers. A proper mount for a 130mm refractor would definitely include the previously discussed CEM70. I get the feeling that throwing around aperture dimensions like this is an indication that the true size, length, and weight of these two instruments is not understood. Don't make the mistake of getting aperture fever and being completely surprised when a mammoth sized telescope appears. Bill Like

11.02

#...

Jerry Gerber:
Bill Long - Dark Matters Astrophotography:
Ryan Wierckx:
For a remote setup I would recommend a traditional GEM rather than a strain wave mount. As Reg mentioned, their only real benefit is having less size and weight over traditional mounts. For a remote system, you want MORE size and weight rather than less, to improve stability, or at the very least, weight is a non-issue.

If you are attached to iOptron, the CEM series, I hear, is excellent. I managed to find a second hand AP 900 GTO for around the same price.

As for polar alignment, you'll only do it once as you mentioned. A device akin to the QHY Polemaster makes it pretty simple with most mounts. It is further aided by the fact there will be other mounts right next to yours already on the pole, so you can get pretty close just by eye.

I am also at DSP Remote - Observatory 8. You'll love it.

I don't see a problem with the CEM70 recommendation either. It has a homing switch in it as well, which is very nice to have for remote usage. If a new 10 Micron isn't in the cards, going used for an AP mount or other premium offering is a good strategy as well.

I'm also in Building 8 at DSP Remote. My rig is directly south of Ryan's.

Hey Bill and Reg,

I am still thinking about whether I want to go remote. I hate flying, and I will have to fly to Tucson and rent a car to get there to setup, test and troubleshoot. On the other hand, no more frustration at trying to image from my backyard when at 5pm the sky is perfectly clear but by 8pm the fog has rolled in (almost a given).

If I decide to to it, I will definitely choose DSP Remote. I've had several email discussions with Ed Thomas and he is very knowledgeable. He did say that Ioptron mounts are "garbage" although he said his partner uses them. It seemed like a harsh judgement considering how many fine images I've seen taken with the CEM70. I can easily afford the 10Micron 1000 mount, but am wondering if I should spend that amount. Any other suggestions for an excellent mount for a 130mm or a 185mm refractor?

Jerry

A 130mm and 185mm refractor are two completely different animals. I strongly urge you to see the size of these things in person. A 130mm refractor isn't that large. A 185mm refractor is extremely large (mostly lengthwise) and will be very heavy in comparison.

A proper mount for a 185mm refractor is an AP900/1100 or similar products from other manufacturers.

A proper mount for a 130mm refractor would definitely include the previously discussed CEM70.

I get the feeling that throwing around aperture dimensions like this is an indication that the true size, length, and weight of these two instruments is not understood. Don't make the mistake of getting aperture fever and being completely surprised when a mammoth sized telescope appears.

Bill

8.67 Reg Pratt #... · view views
I would still consider the JTW GTR. Mount + shipping + import duty will put you around $5700/. Lets call it an even $6000 to account for shipping rates being different depending on destination. Thats considerably cheaper than the 1000HPS. You'd be giving up absolute encoders but since you're autoguiding thats of no consequence. They are purpose built for observatory use so you still get homing sensor, sky modeling, and 165lbs of photographic payload . They are also very low maintenance since theyre friction drives so there are no gears or belts. IMO the only thing one needs to be mindful of when it comes to friction drives is that they are very sensitive to imbalance so the payload needs to be well balanced in every axis. This isn't really that big of a task though unless you're using an asymmetrical tandem rig or something. So at the end of the day we are talking 3x the payload capacity, premium performance, and more stability. All for a significantly lower price. This is how I landed on the GRT being my next mount when I was looking to get into the premium stuff. The 1000HPS starts at around $10,500 and thats before options, shipping, and tax. If you were to go the GTR route you'd be saving at least $4500. Thats a nice chunk of money you could put towards something else whether it be astro related or not. Not to mention, unless you one day decide to get something larger than say a 17" CDK you're not going to outgrow a GTR. Edited ... Like

8.67

#...

I would still consider the JTW GTR. Mount + shipping + import duty will put you around $5700/. Lets call it an even $6000 to account for shipping rates being different depending on destination. Thats considerably cheaper than the 1000HPS. You'd be giving up absolute encoders but since you're autoguiding thats of no consequence. They are purpose built for observatory use so you still get homing sensor, sky modeling, and 165lbs of photographic payload . They are also very low maintenance since theyre friction drives so there are no gears or belts. IMO the only thing one needs to be mindful of when it comes to friction drives is that they are very sensitive to imbalance so the payload needs to be well balanced in every axis. This isn't really that big of a task though unless you're using an asymmetrical tandem rig or something.

So at the end of the day we are talking 3x the payload capacity, premium performance, and more stability. All for a significantly lower price. This is how I landed on the GRT being my next mount when I was looking to get into the premium stuff. The 1000HPS starts at around $10,500 and thats before options, shipping, and tax. If you were to go the GTR route you'd be saving at least $4500. Thats a nice chunk of money you could put towards something else whether it be astro related or not. Not to mention, unless you one day decide to get something larger than say a 17" CDK you're not going to outgrow a GTR.

Edited ...

8.77 Jerry Gerber #... · view views
Bill Long - Dark Matters Astrophotography: Jerry Gerber: Bill Long - Dark Matters Astrophotography: Ryan Wierckx: For a remote setup I would recommend a traditional GEM rather than a strain wave mount. As Reg mentioned, their only real benefit is having less size and weight over traditional mounts. For a remote system, you want MORE size and weight rather than less, to improve stability, or at the very least, weight is a non-issue. If you are attached to iOptron, the CEM series, I hear, is excellent. I managed to find a second hand AP 900 GTO for around the same price. As for polar alignment, you'll only do it once as you mentioned. A device akin to the QHY Polemaster makes it pretty simple with most mounts. It is further aided by the fact there will be other mounts right next to yours already on the pole, so you can get pretty close just by eye. I am also at DSP Remote - Observatory 8. You'll love it. I don't see a problem with the CEM70 recommendation either. It has a homing switch in it as well, which is very nice to have for remote usage. If a new 10 Micron isn't in the cards, going used for an AP mount or other premium offering is a good strategy as well. I'm also in Building 8 at DSP Remote. My rig is directly south of Ryan's. Hey Bill and Reg, I am still thinking about whether I want to go remote. I hate flying, and I will have to fly to Tucson and rent a car to get there to setup, test and troubleshoot. On the other hand, no more frustration at trying to image from my backyard when at 5pm the sky is perfectly clear but by 8pm the fog has rolled in (almost a given). If I decide to to it, I will definitely choose DSP Remote. I've had several email discussions with Ed Thomas and he is very knowledgeable. He did say that Ioptron mounts are "garbage" although he said his partner uses them. It seemed like a harsh judgement considering how many fine images I've seen taken with the CEM70. I can easily afford the 10Micron 1000 mount, but am wondering if I should spend that amount. Any other suggestions for an excellent mount for a 130mm or a 185mm refractor? Jerry A 130mm and 185mm refractor are two completely different animals. I strongly urge you to see the size of these things in person. A 130mm refractor isn't that large. A 185mm refractor is extremely large (mostly lengthwise) and will be very heavy in comparison. A proper mount for a 185mm refractor is an AP900/1100 or similar products from other manufacturers. A proper mount for a 130mm refractor would definitely include the previously discussed CEM70. I get the feeling that throwing around aperture dimensions like this is an indication that the true size, length, and weight of these two instruments is not understood. Don't make the mistake of getting aperture fever and being completely surprised when a mammoth sized telescope appears. Bill I own the Askar 130 PHQ and it's a great telescope. Not that heavy or large. I think I'd forego the 185 and get the Askar 151 PHQ, it's FL is just a bit larger than the 130 but with an f7 rather than an f7.7 focal ratio, a bit faster. And only about 32 lbs with dovetail and rings.. Like

8.77

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Bill Long - Dark Matters Astrophotography:
Jerry Gerber:
Bill Long - Dark Matters Astrophotography:
Ryan Wierckx:
For a remote setup I would recommend a traditional GEM rather than a strain wave mount. As Reg mentioned, their only real benefit is having less size and weight over traditional mounts. For a remote system, you want MORE size and weight rather than less, to improve stability, or at the very least, weight is a non-issue.

If you are attached to iOptron, the CEM series, I hear, is excellent. I managed to find a second hand AP 900 GTO for around the same price.

As for polar alignment, you'll only do it once as you mentioned. A device akin to the QHY Polemaster makes it pretty simple with most mounts. It is further aided by the fact there will be other mounts right next to yours already on the pole, so you can get pretty close just by eye.

I am also at DSP Remote - Observatory 8. You'll love it.

I don't see a problem with the CEM70 recommendation either. It has a homing switch in it as well, which is very nice to have for remote usage. If a new 10 Micron isn't in the cards, going used for an AP mount or other premium offering is a good strategy as well.

I'm also in Building 8 at DSP Remote. My rig is directly south of Ryan's.

Hey Bill and Reg,

I am still thinking about whether I want to go remote. I hate flying, and I will have to fly to Tucson and rent a car to get there to setup, test and troubleshoot. On the other hand, no more frustration at trying to image from my backyard when at 5pm the sky is perfectly clear but by 8pm the fog has rolled in (almost a given).

If I decide to to it, I will definitely choose DSP Remote. I've had several email discussions with Ed Thomas and he is very knowledgeable. He did say that Ioptron mounts are "garbage" although he said his partner uses them. It seemed like a harsh judgement considering how many fine images I've seen taken with the CEM70. I can easily afford the 10Micron 1000 mount, but am wondering if I should spend that amount. Any other suggestions for an excellent mount for a 130mm or a 185mm refractor?

Jerry

A 130mm and 185mm refractor are two completely different animals. I strongly urge you to see the size of these things in person. A 130mm refractor isn't that large. A 185mm refractor is extremely large (mostly lengthwise) and will be very heavy in comparison.

A proper mount for a 185mm refractor is an AP900/1100 or similar products from other manufacturers.

A proper mount for a 130mm refractor would definitely include the previously discussed CEM70.

I get the feeling that throwing around aperture dimensions like this is an indication that the true size, length, and weight of these two instruments is not understood. Don't make the mistake of getting aperture fever and being completely surprised when a mammoth sized telescope appears.

Bill

I own the Askar 130 PHQ and it's a great telescope. Not that heavy or large. I think I'd forego the 185 and get the Askar 151 PHQ, it's FL is just a bit larger than the 130 but with an f7 rather than an f7.7 focal ratio, a bit faster. And only about 32 lbs with dovetail and rings..

6.08 Bob Lockwood #... · view views · 1 like
I totally agree with Bill, and personally, I think AP is the best choice, but the AP900 in my opinion is too small for the 185. I had my TEC180 on the AP1200 and it was not even close to overloading it but was getting heavy to transport. I had reservations about going down to the AP1100, but the 1100AE handles the 180 quite well, expensive, yes, but well worth every penny. Also, absolute encoders do much more then aid in unguiding, they push back if you get hit with wind. I got the AE version never intending to use it for unguiding. Edited ... Like

6.08

Bob Lockwood

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· 1 like

I totally agree with Bill, and personally, I think AP is the best choice, but the AP900 in my opinion is too small for the 185. I had my TEC180 on the AP1200
and it was not even close to overloading it but was getting heavy to transport. I had reservations about going down to the AP1100, but the 1100AE
handles the 180 quite well, expensive, yes, but well worth every penny. Also, absolute encoders do much more then aid in unguiding, they push back if you get hit with wind. I got the AE version never intending to use it for unguiding.

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11.02 Bill Long - Dark Matters Astrophotography #... · view views
Jerry Gerber: I own the Askar 130 PHQ and it's a great telescope. Not that heavy or large. I think I'd forego the 185 and get the Askar 151 PHQ, it's FL is just a bit larger than the 130 but with an f7 rather than an f7.7 focal ratio, a bit faster. And only about 32 lbs with dovetail and rings.. Yeah the 130mm scopes are in that sweet spot. Not too large, not too small, and not too heavy. In any case, it is important to not just look at the weight of a telescope when considering a mount. The length of the scope, in focus with all of your gear attached to it, is more important and will help inform the decision of which mount is correct for your application, moreso than just looking at weight will. AP has this graph they show for their Mach 2 mount. As you will see the height and the length of the gear attached needs to be considered, in addition to the weight. So, don't make the mistake of reading the weight capacity of a mount and putting a scope way too long or way too tall on it. Or a combination of both... Edited ... Like

11.02

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Jerry Gerber:
I own the Askar 130 PHQ and it's a great telescope. Not that heavy or large. I think I'd forego the 185 and get the Askar 151 PHQ, it's FL is just a bit larger than the 130 but with an f7 rather than an f7.7 focal ratio, a bit faster. And only about 32 lbs with dovetail and rings..

Yeah the 130mm scopes are in that sweet spot. Not too large, not too small, and not too heavy.

In any case, it is important to not just look at the weight of a telescope when considering a mount. The length of the scope, in focus with all of your gear attached to it, is more important and will help inform the decision of which mount is correct for your application, moreso than just looking at weight will.

AP has this graph they show for their Mach 2 mount. As you will see the height and the length of the gear attached needs to be considered, in addition to the weight. So, don't make the mistake of reading the weight capacity of a mount and putting a scope way too long or way too tall on it. Or a combination of both...

Edited ...

8.77 Jerry Gerber #... · view views
Bill Long - Dark Matters Astrophotography: Jerry Gerber: I own the Askar 130 PHQ and it's a great telescope. Not that heavy or large. I think I'd forego the 185 and get the Askar 151 PHQ, it's FL is just a bit larger than the 130 but with an f7 rather than an f7.7 focal ratio, a bit faster. And only about 32 lbs with dovetail and rings.. Yeah the 130mm scopes are in that sweet spot. Not too large, not too small, and not too heavy. In any case, it is important to not just look at the weight of a telescope when considering a mount. The length of the scope, in focus with all of your gear attached to it, is more important and will help inform the decision of which mount is correct for your application, moreso than just looking at weight will. AP has this graph they show for their Mach 2 mount. As you will see the height and the length of the gear attached needs to be considered, in addition to the weight. So, don't make the mistake of reading the weight capacity of a mount and putting a scope way too long or way too tall on it. Or a combination of both... Yeah, thanks for that chart. The 10Micron 1000 is made for 150mm refractors, that's what the manufacturer says, so that mount would be perfect for the Askar 151PHQ. I am still looking at the Ioptron CEM70 with encoders on both axis and iPolar. I'm pretty sure it can easily handle a 6 inch refractor.. Like

8.77

#...

Bill Long - Dark Matters Astrophotography:
Jerry Gerber:
I own the Askar 130 PHQ and it's a great telescope. Not that heavy or large. I think I'd forego the 185 and get the Askar 151 PHQ, it's FL is just a bit larger than the 130 but with an f7 rather than an f7.7 focal ratio, a bit faster. And only about 32 lbs with dovetail and rings..

Yeah the 130mm scopes are in that sweet spot. Not too large, not too small, and not too heavy.

In any case, it is important to not just look at the weight of a telescope when considering a mount. The length of the scope, in focus with all of your gear attached to it, is more important and will help inform the decision of which mount is correct for your application, moreso than just looking at weight will.

AP has this graph they show for their Mach 2 mount. As you will see the height and the length of the gear attached needs to be considered, in addition to the weight. So, don't make the mistake of reading the weight capacity of a mount and putting a scope way too long or way too tall on it. Or a combination of both...

Yeah, thanks for that chart. The 10Micron 1000 is made for 150mm refractors, that's what the manufacturer says, so that mount would be perfect for the Askar 151PHQ. I am still looking at the Ioptron CEM70 with encoders on both axis and iPolar. I'm pretty sure it can easily handle a 6 inch refractor..

11.02 Bill Long - Dark Matters Astrophotography #... · view views · 1 like
Jerry Gerber: Yeah, thanks for that chart. The 10Micron 1000 is made for 150mm refractors, that's what the manufacturer says, so that mount would be perfect for the Askar 151PHQ. I am still looking at the Ioptron CEM70 with encoders on both axis and iPolar. I'm pretty sure it can easily handle a 6 inch refractor.. I would avoid the CEM mounts with encoders. They do not have a good reputation of creating encoder mounts worth a darn. If you want encoders, then 10 Micron is the best solution readily available. Ed is a dealer for them and is an authorized repair center for them, and gives a discount if you host it at his site. If I was deploying a 150mm refractor I would put it on a Mach 2 (not readily available) or a 10 Micron 1000 HPS. Encoders are not only about unguided imaging by the way. I'm not sure why that's become a rumor in the community, but they do more than just enable that. Bill Like

11.02