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I've managed to take what seems to be a very unique image on Astrobin. I intentionally shot a semi-wide field image of vdB 1. Most imagers when trying to shoot this subject are doing so at longer focal length, and focus in on vdB1 itself trying to omit the bright star Caph. Due in no small part to having access to bortle 1 skies, but also modern camera sensors, a telescope with exceptional optical quality, and modern software combined with modern processing techniques, it's created a situation where this image particularly reveals some potentially unknown reflection nebulas. This led to a new discovery by myself of a reflection nebula located next to the star HD 225257, named Burwell 1. It appears standalone and detached from the main known reflection nebula complex LBN117.68-03.69. Strictly speaking LBN117.68-03.69 is specifically the smaller noted area in the image above. But in my image for the first time possibly, it appears to be a much larger reflection nebula complex including the area around star HD470. Another user approached me after seeing this image, and said they had been imaging the reflection nebula around HD470 and asked whether or not they could claim this as a new nebula. When doing searches on both the CDS portal, and ADS, no known nebulas are noted around this star. So technically speaking, no one has logged this reflection nebula. However it's clear in my image that the LBN117 area is much larger than noted officially. I have also seen the nebula around HD470 show up in many other images of people imaging vdB1, and no one has noted it. Could someone else make this claim? Additionally there appears to be another unknown reflection nebula around star HD 593. Also absent from known catalogs or databases. Could be claimed as Burwell 2 by myself, or is this an extension of the LBN complex to the right of Caph? I wanted to pose this question to the larger audience of Astrobin as to whether or not the area around HD 470 is a legitimate claim as a stand alone object or part of the larger LBN object? What about the area around HD 593? Just to note, I didn't set out to discover any objects, and stumbled across these nebulas by chance. After having seen Nico Carver discover a new nebula around the Cave nebula complex. This prompted me to propose Burwell 1 as a new discovery. Not having been satisfied by my own searches for references to this nebula I also reached out to Marcel Drechsler since he has a lot of experience discovering new objects, to ask if he could confirm whether or not there was any previous mention of this new nebula. All this is to say I'm not experienced at this, and why I'm looking to the community for guidance. Thanks, Andrew |
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This is a fantastic image, and you’ve really gone deep on an area that is often overlooked in favor of the nearby highlights like NGC281. This makes me wish I had a place in the Animas area to image from. As far as I know, there is no formal way to adjudicate claims of new objects, other than for planetary nebulae. This may be an unpopular opinion, but I have to ask… do we really need a new “catalog” for this? Whom is it helping? Over the past year, I’ve noted a dozen or so HII regions in my images that don’t have a catalog entry. I’ve simply described them as “uncatalogued.” This seems reasonable to me, given that wherever you have stars illuminating gas and dust in space, there are going to be features and fragments that seem distinct. The uncatalogued nebulae are likely wisps of a greater cloud, so I never felt they needed their own designation. By analogy, not every peak in the Himalayas has a name. (Or maybe I’m missing out. Perhaps I need to start a new catalog of my own for all those H-alpha objects before someone else does?) We can now image fainter objects than photographic plates ever could, so it’s inevitable that we’re going to reveal new things. The recent discoveries by Marcel Drechsler, et al demonstrate this, as their images are the first to reveal those extremely faint objects. That seems like a reasonable threshold for describing something as new: when your image is the first it’s ever appeared on. Is that the case here for the object around HD 225257? It does appear on the DSS plates, though faintly. To me, the other two objects are just features of the greater cloud around Caph. I think you’d be harder pressed to consider them distinct objects. The one on the right appears to be an extension of vdB1, though illuminated by a different star. The one on the left seems to be just the edge of the cloud illuminated by Caph. If that’s a separate nebula, then why not the similar arc at center-bottom? Perhaps others will disagree with this. In the end, I guess it doesn't really matter, as we can call objects what we want and there is no official arbiter (unless you publish your findings in a peer-reviewed paper and convince SIMBAD to add your objects, I suppose). Charlie |
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Thanks Charlie, I appreciate the commentary. I personally have no desire to maintain my own catalog of random nebula I come across. But it was a fun exercise to name this one I found while following the lead of others recently. I personally would be more for extending an existing amateur catalog rather than making my own. But this is why I posted it as an open question. I don't think this is for me to decide, but maybe the larger collective here on Astrobin. I have no scientific stake in any of this, and just take pretty photos as a hobby I enjoy. I also agree that in all likelihood all the reflection nebula in this area is probably part of the same complex. Even longer integrations with more sensitive equipment in time might bear this out. Hoping to hear others thoughts as well. -Andrew |
