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I've been imaging for about 16 months and am at the point where I desire darker and more consistent sky conditions. In choosing a Remote Telescope Site, I have some questions. 1. Would I be able to ship my telescope and mount to the site or must I be there in person to set up the pier, mount, scope and all the various connections? 2. How do I polar align from a distance if I cannot physically access the mount's azimuth/altitude controls? 3, If I install an Edge 11 scope and want to add a reducer, who will do that? 4. I am thinking of using NINA to do what my ASIAIR Plus does at home. I am assuming NINA will work over a fiber optic internet connection, am I correct? I am sure I'll have a million questions directed towards the site I ultimately choose; thanks for any feedback from your own experience! Best, Jerry |
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They all vary, but most places like DSP Remote have people on site that can do the installation and upgrades if you want or you can go on site to do them yourself. Both NINA and Voyager are fine selections for remote imaging. I personally use Voyager Advanced. If you decide to go to DSP Remote be sure to tell Ed Thomas I sent you. 🙂 Bill |
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Yes, almost all of these sites, if not all, have qualified people to do part or all of the setup. Personally, I prefer to travel to do my own setup. IMHO it is just that much less "your image" if you don't do as much yourself as possible. Plus I am super fussy about a neat and clean install. All sites are not equal when it comes to service. I have been to three and my buddy to five and some were/are super, others a close to awful in terms of service. You need to ask someone who is or has been to the places you are considering and has had to have more than minor service done. Another BIG thing to consider is conditions. For example, places like NM and AZ are very dark but have the summer "monsoons" to deal with so expect less imaging time in the summer and more in the winter. NM can be very windy and pretty dusty, so a wind sensitive system might not be a great choice for there, depending on the specific type of enclosure. Seeing vs your focal length is also worth considering. NM, AZ, and Utah are OK but my experience tells me (and I have been to both NM and CA with my systems) that most of the California sites are typically better in terms of seeing (at the cost of fewer clear nights) so for long focal length high res stuff you may be better off in California. Sites are often a bit "cagy" about their seeing so you need to check this out with an unbiased source. Good Luck |
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| Thank you Bill McLaughlin and Bill Long. Good things to consider. Right now, I image at a site about 3 hours NE of San Francisco (where I live) and it's a Bortle 2 site. Sierra Remote Observatories, though higher in elevation, doesn't seem quite as dark. But the 3 hour drive (6 in both directions) is long. There's obviously a lot to consider. I hadn't thought about how to cover the corrector plate or lens when not imaging and I'm sure there's 20 other things I haven't yet considered.. |
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Jerry Gerber: I don't do anything to cover my CDK when it's not in use. I also don't want to trap heat inside that would increase cooldown time. You'll want to plan to have fans (Ed Thomas sells Tempest Fans on Deep Space Products), and a way to control dew. They're definitely more like a remote controllable power switch (Digital Loggers makes a great one) and a method for flats (I use the sky) and darks (cover scope, dark filter, or camera with a shutter). Bill |
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Pretty much every remote observatory will cover you for technical stuff on site if you can't do it in person. Every location has its trade offs photographically and weather wise. The California observatories have the best seeing in the USA, and no summer monsoon, at the cost of light pollution and (recently) bad winter weather. The other southwest observatories like in the Great Basin or Sonoran/Chihuahuan deserts will enjoy clearer winters, darker skies, but they have significantly worse seeing and a summer monsoon. If you use a high resolution system sampling below maybe 1.5", the only place you will consistently be able to use the full resolution of your system now in the USA is California. So if you have a big planewave and a modern CMOS camera, it is the best option. There are other places in the USA that probably enjoy seeing this good on average, like Kitt Peak, Mt. Graham, etc. but they are not available to us common folk. If you are using a wide field system, it doesn't really matter as much, and you can choose a location if you want to shoot more in the summer or in the winter. |
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Bray Falls: Hi Bray, Thanks for that info. I am considering putting a 185mm refractor with a focal length of 1295mm on one of these sites. I live in California and am gathering information as to what site might be best. I am considering a triplet refractor with flattener and no reducer as it won't need collimation and I won't need to change FL, which reduces any need for support. There's a site in central California that I'm considering, at this point it's Bortle 2 but who knows how long that will last. Best, Jerry |
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| Don't mean to hijack this topic, but how about commercial remote hosting sites in West Texas? Anything reputable in that area? |
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Ashraf AbuSara: Too far, I'll stick to California as Bray says, the seeing is really good here, albeit we have to deal with light pollution and cloudy weather. But my experience is that some light pollution is much easier to overcome through filtering and post-processing than wind is... |
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Jerry Gerber: See my answers above... |
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Thanks a lot John, what you say really makes sense. I'd choose my focal length and forget about a reducer, I can do that in my backyard... Jerry |
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Jerry Gerber:Ashraf AbuSara: I was asking more for my own benefit as I was thinking of remote setups too, but was hoping for something closer to me in Texas. McDonald's Observatory is in West Texas so the skies gotta be pretty good there. Just wondering if anyone knows of a reputable commercial hosting site in that region. |
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I'm located in CA as well and would agree that for large systems SRO is the best option overall. I host in Utah. Its a little more affordable but the seeing is average (2-2.5"). Dips below 1" occasionally but not for long. This isnt much of an issue for my medium fov newt. It is very dark, has provided a lot of clear sky in the 8 months I've been there, and the customer service is top notch. That being said, when I eventually get a larger system it will likely go to SRO. I don't want to pollute the thread with a bunch of redundant information but another important thing to consider is the cost of the hosting. Some places charge for support and it can be quite expensive. Just another thing to ask about when you reach out to various obs for more information. |
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Seeing and distance and service were my biggest issues when I chose SkiesAway in Ca. Seeing is better than anywhere other than SRO unless there is somewhere else I am not aware of and I have experience with three NM sites as well. Distance is "just barley a days drive" so that is OK as well. Service is also excellent with the owner living on site and having a great deal of experience. Defiantly better than two out of the three NM sites I was at but one thing about service is that it can change as the owners change service people - the service guy last year may not be the same as this year or next year. The exception are resident/owners who are also service. The bad news is that they are a small place and are full up. They do have a waiting list and probably will expand but that may be some time yet.  Then as Bray says about SRO, California has not exactly been blessed with it's usual clear weather for the past two winters. Blame me for that since that is about how long I have been down there!  |
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Bill McLaughlin: Hi Bill, SkiesAway is looking like the best option for me too, and I'm on the waiting list. It's a closer drive for me too, I'm in San Francisco. My only concern is coastal fog, but I think it's about 25 miles or so from the coast, yes? I think there's only two options in California, SkiesAway and SRO. SRO seems way overpriced, I was expecting to pay $800 a month, but I think that's only for setting up a tripod. Having a pier (even if I bring my own) seems to be a lot more money per month. Jerry |
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Jerry Gerber:Bill McLaughlin: UDRO is $800/mo and the price only goes up if you're installing something larger than a 17" CDK. I live in Vallejo so it was quite the drive but very doable. They also have space open. While you're trying to make a decision it wouldn't be a bad idea to build a log of the weather for all the sites you have in mind. I did this for about a year. Helps give an understanding of what goes on at each site throughout a year. |
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DSP Remote is $600/mo and they provide a pier for you. It's a newer business that is being built out still and has been continuing to evolve over time. It's owned and operated by Ed Thomas of Deep Space Products. They have multiple 4 pier roll off roof buildings they set folks up in. It's in New Mexico so wind can be a factor at times. The last monsoon season wasn't all that bad, at least not as bad as I was anticipating. Seeing is decent there, the sky is nice and dark, and winter imaging has extremely nice long nights. It hasn't been great the last month or so, but that's been a common theme across a lot of the US. Forecast shows things should be improving as we head into April though. I'm located in the Pacific Northwest, which has to be the worst place in the United States for Astrophotography. So it's a huge step up in terms of quality compared to what one gets here. So far I've been pleased, and for the price it's really hard to beat. It's a quick flight for me from Seattle to Tucson, then a two hour drive to the observatory. They have a very nice new clubhouse you can stay in on site (need to reserve it) which is cozy. Bill |
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Jerry Gerber:Bill McLaughlin: It is a nice site. Currently there are two buildings, one is for us amateurs (8 systems) and the other is dedicated to a satellite tracking outfit. Bryan, the resident/owner/service is great to deal with and has many years of experience in astronomy. Fog is sometimes an issue in the early AM but the good news is that good seeing often precedes it. There are no accommodations anywhere close (maybe 45 minutes) so one would have to either tent camp or have some sort of RV for staying any length of time. I have a trailer so I do that. There is a mixture of tripods (2) with small systems and larger mounts and systems. Quite a few Planewave L-mounts (my 350 and 3 500s) as well as 10 Micron, AP, and Bisque. There is a nice Slack channel for users to communicate. Overall the best experience of the four I have had at remote sites, only the recently bad Ca weather has marred the experience. |
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| I think if you plan to go remote, especially if you're in California, is to ask them how the air-traffic is. I just watched a short video from the UDRO (Utah Desert Remote Observatory) I know, not CA, but at their site, aircraft fly pretty much right over head all night long. Just a thought, something to ask. |
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It's almost as though dark, pristine skies are becoming like gold or diamonds - - no wonder some of the remote hosting sites are charging excessive amounts of money to rent a bit of space. It's sad that with all of the technological advances of the 20th and 21st centuries we are losing the very experience (a Bortle 1 sky) that inspired and motivated people to discover and create the science of astronomy in the first place. |
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I also am set up at DSP, since last June, and am quite happy with it. As Bill has mentioned, it’s a relatively new operation but they’ve established reliable roof operation and communication, and have a supportive and competent technical site presence. That’s really important at any remote site. The skies are really, really dark at DSP and I get lots of nights for imaging, giving me far more data gathering time than I would ever get anywhere close to my home location, and with far more convenience, once everything is properly set up. It’s really hard to beat being able to sit at home and set up a night of imaging in the sequencer at a dark location, and go to sleep in my own bed, on top of having many more nights of clear skies than I’d get anywhere close to home. And I live in San Diego. Various remote operations advertise varying levels of seeing, so it’s important to assess that for yourself. I personally don’t know of an objective data set for that. However, I believe most sites do have data for the number of clear nights so you could check that. As others have said, proper setup is crucial, and I’d agree that it’s best if you do it yourself, partly so you know it’s set up correctly, but also because it’s a hobby after all and setting things up and having it all work correctly is part of the satisfaction. But you can save yourself a lot of trouble by doing a complete setup at home, and verifying that the imaging works, software is optimized, collimation is good, tilt is acceptable, cables are well arranged etc. before you go to a remote site. I’m speaking from painful personal experience. Trying to do too much at a remote site, often in the cold and dark, and in limited site visit time, just leads to compromises in the quality of the imaging, and frustration. Depending on what services are available at whatever site you choose it might be possible to have someone do your polar alignments for you, based on your instructions, but I personally would do that myself as part of the setup. Having a good mount is really crucial. I use NINA and am happy with the advanced sequencer it has, including the safety input it includes which is an indicator of roof closure. But of course NINA is not the only controller out there, and some prefer others, such as Voyager. If you decide to switch over from ASIAIR to NINA or Voyager, etc., I’d strongly suggest you do that before you install equipment remotely. And verify everything is working correctly before you take everything to the remote site. You really don’t want to be learning new control software and tweaking settings at site to get everything to work in the cold and dark, with time constraints. I previously used ASIAIR before going to NINA, but not at a remote site. I liked ASIAIR for its simplicity and the fact that it ‘just worked’, but only when I was next to the mount during the entire imaging night. I switched to NINA subsequently, before going remote. The advanced sequencing in NINA is really an asset at a remote site. |
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Thank you Patrick for the detailed report, much appreciated! Jerry |
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Jerry, When I first set up in SRO I was a 5 hour drive away and I thought that was just OK if a bit too far. But after I got more experience there really wasn't a reason to go onsite all that often. I later moved to Portland and started flying into Fresno for visits. Then I moved down to Obstech in Chile and I'm quite happy even though it's the other side of the world. My point here is, initially, I overvalued being close to the site. Sky quality, service and price turned out to be more important. Kevin |
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Kevin Morefield: I would fully agree with this, Kevin. One of the big reasons I went to DSP Remote is that I know Ed Thomas well from my time on CN in the past, as well as having been a customer of his for gear prior to me moving my CDK14 to his site. The price he offers there is excellent, skies are great, and service is good. Also helps when the observatory owner is an authorized dealer for most Astro gear, and for 10um mount owners, he's also authorized to repair them to a certain point without the need to ship to Italy. Bill |
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Kevin Morefield: I concur, don't forget the point of all of this, which is to maximize your exposure time under dark skies. That happens whether you visit or not. Globally there is no comparison to the Chile and Namibian sites, but I think before going there it would be good to learn the process in the USA. Or at least get a good stable setup locally running first. If you have something break out of country it is a lot more intensive to deal with. |
