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| I can usually do it in under 5 mins with the ASIAIR but I don't go chasing the inner circle. Generally aim for about 1 arc min (<2 arc min gives you the smiley face). The ASIAIR circles are an odd log type scale - goes from 1 degree (flat mouth face) to 2 arc mins (smiley face) to 4 arc seconds so this is a 30-fold decrease each circle (and so you have to move the knobs 1/30th of the distance for the same screen movement). It would probably be easier if there were more circles with a lower ratio (10-fold?). But once you are in the 2' circle, just get it a bit closer to the centre and you are probably at about 1' and that should be enough for most cases. I assume it has a linear movement within the circle (in which case the inner circle should be 1/30 of the diameter of the one you are working in so it seems to be drawn out of scale - it seems to be drawn as 1/6th the diameter). This makes it a much more elusive target than it looks - very easy to just jump over it. Just get as close to the centre as possible and ignore the final circle - actually achieving 4" precision would be quite a feat. |
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Thanks everyone for sharing your experience with PA and the AM5. I polar aligned the other night and it took 10 minutes. Doing the alt first by keeping the knobs snug but not too tight did the trick and also always ending by moving the mount upwards to its final position rather than downwards makes sense, working against gravity, similar to focusing an Edge scope. Then I did the azi and that went very smoothly as well. Very small movements are definitely the way to go. I ended up with about 12 arc seconds of error. I ascribe to the idea of getting PA as close to zero error as possible, and not settling for 2 or 3 arc minutes error. 30 or 40 arc-seconds of error (or even better, less) is what I aim for, the whole point is to ensure that guiding goes well, and, as we all know, autoguiding is very finicky, the numbers change every second. |
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Jerry Gerber: Yes - 40 to 30 arc seconds would be 2/3 to 3/4 of the way from the edge of the 2 arc minute (happy face circle) so a much easier target than the 4 arc second final circle. Actually getting to the edge of the 4" circle on the screen would be at about 20 arc seconds. |
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Jerry Gerber: My AM5 has quite a bit of play in the alt when first starting the adjustment. It definitely is frustrating. I can overcome it but it’s frustrating. I do all I can not to go too far. No problem with the alz. I don’t know if it is with all AM5’s or just mine. |
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Hi, thanks for the great tips ! It’s sometimes really frustrating to align and come close to the final circle because after tightening the knobs, I am again off. Is there any way to stop the process if you are very close but still got no smiley? I tried today and cancel the PA but the mount was not tracking probably after plate solving to the target (which was successful). |
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As long as you do one axis at the time and perhaps semi-tighten the knobs when you're really close it can be done very quickly. I carry my setup back and forth between sessions (depending on the forecast) but I usually spend no more than 5-6 minutes before I'm taking images. Sometimes if it's very cold (-20c or less) I might settle for "good enough" PA as long as the total error is around 3-5", but it doesn't take much to get less than that either. I use the AA+ btw and the TC40. The key is very small adjustments and careful tightening of the bolts as you go, at least that's my experience after using it for six months. In the beginning I was overshooting a bit as well, while I was still getting a feel for it. The only issues I've had would have been problematic for any mount I suspect, as it has to do with a soft lawn and slight movements on a deck as me moving away slightly affected the position. Having it on my gravel driveway makes it super precise. |
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| Full disclosure, my ASIAIR occasionally calls me "slow, like riding a bicycle" but that's usually on nights when I'm being too much of a perfectionist. It's January in New England so no longer... also, after some time logging what really does and doesn't make a difference when guiding at 300mm, I've settled on anywhere under a minute. Since taking that approach, I'm 'fast, like a rocket ship!' (: The best trick is the one mentioned here already -- using slight tension on the clutch to avoid over-adjustments. The other is doing dec first, against the tension. Also after analyzing my setup routine I found that I was wasting some initial dialing time by applying screw adjustments within degrees, when it's actually fastest to inch over the entire rig (with a light widefield) by slightly moving the tripod from the back leg. Once into arc minutes, with the alt / az screws already at the midway point, I'll press down into the grass to remove any possible travel. I always turn off "auto" as this feature at first looks like a time-saver but in reality logs too much movement from adjustments. I've found it's more accurate and therefore faster, to enter my adjustments after the PA has returned a value. |
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Jerry Gerber: I have the same slop with mine in the alt when changing directions. I don’t know if there’s an adjustment to correct it or if it’s a poor design. I just effectively deal with it. |
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| A Polemaster makes polar alignment of the mount precise and easy. |
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I do polar alignment using a low power green laser pointed at Polaris. ASIAir PA works, but it is too fiddly and time-consuming. I know Polaris is not true North, but I find that ASIAir target plate solving and autoguiding correct for the slight misalignment. Only takes 30 seconds to 1 minute, and I'm always under .7 RMS, even when using Celestron C8. Video at :51-- https://youtu.be/QC9Ol7bkyV4?si=AZLz7X1NCO2nnL4n  |
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| IMHO the altitude adjustment for AM5 is not instrument quality especially in decreasing altitude. To overcome that issue am using a 17" Losmandy mount plate with a 5 lb weight attached facing out. My ota is a WO 71, it's short. |
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A few additional thoughts ... I'm a huge fan of the ASIAir Pro and Plus - I had both of them - they are very capable and simple to use. I could usually get a good PA within a few minutes, with the smiley face and sometimes a fireworks display, which I think means the PA was super-quick. As time went on, I wanted something more capable, so I switched to NINA and the 3-point Polar Alignment tool. It's more elegant than the PA tools in AsiAIR, and I still get a good PA in a few minutes. I think this all suggests that there is nothing wring with the AM5 - at least not with my one - and that getting a good PA might be a matter of technique, more than something wrong with the equipment. My tips are :- 1. Make sure your setup is well-levelled and well focused; 2. After any adjustment, always let ASIAir (or NINA) complete TWO cycles of plate-solving. The one processed while you make adjustments will be WRONG, because stars will be streaked by the adjustment process. 3. LET GO of the adjustment knobs as soon as you complete your adjustment. It's super-easy to to mess up the PA by holding onto the knobs while you're waiting for the plate-solves to complete. 4. Don't be too fussy about accuracy. A better PA will always give you better images, but spending ages chasing a 'perfect' PA reduces your imaging time, and probably won't improve your images. 5. Once you get close to your target accuracy, adjust one axis at a time. Trying to save to by adjusting both axes per plate-solve will often decrease your alignment accuracy rather than improving it. 6. Don't expect too much from the AM5. I get good results using a large refractor, which weighs about 12kg when fully loaded. Although this is less than the AM5 payload spec without counterweights, I always use counterweights to balance the load on the mount. 7. Don't expect too much from the TC-40 tripod. Many AM5 owners also use the TC-40 - it's super lightweight, and great for taking out into the field. However it is definitely not stable enough for anything approaching the AM5's maximum payload. I designed a tripod spreader to stabilise the top part of the tripod, as well as foldable arms that attach to the bottom of each leg where I can add a kettle weight - these made a MASSIVE difference. I designed these parts for my own setup, but have made them available to others - you can see them online here - scroll down to see the tripod parts - just click the image to play a video. My reasoning here is that if I can get a good PA on my AM5 in very little time, then anyone should be able to do it  Cheers, Gary |
