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| Firstly, the program lost camera during imaging session, I cannot find imaging window, all mess up. I was not able to connect camera by regular button, need to find from the list of cameras, the same - EFW - this is the first bug. The second - an attempt to change folder to keep images and sequences leaded to freeze of the program, all is dead, have to use file manager to cancel the program the second bug. My attempt to change the folder after to a new one is useless, no files saved in the new folder -the third bug. |
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| I installed the second version - the same problems with saving a new folder, so as I already told - the bug is inherited, the 3 version has nothing to do with it. |
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Linwood Ferguson:Guillaume Seigneuret: *** For me screen shots, logs, outputs sounds like dark magic, please do not put a curse on me  ***
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Adel Kildeev: Generally speaking problems with connection loss come either from bad USB cables or hubs, or bad settings in windows (e.g. power saving turned on for USB can be a problem). Once a connection is lost, NINA does not try to recover it on its own, you have to reconnect. If the EFW is connected through the camera hub then losing the camera will usually lose the camera. The available cameras is populated by a scan of the connected devices. It does not automatically rescan, so if it disappears at a time when it first does the scan, your camera will not appear. Whether it is available is a combination of the hardware working (normal cause) or software drivers (ASCOM usually, but might be native drivers). There is a button on NINA that will rescan. The vast, vast majority of the problems reported with failures like connection lost, failure to download, inability to see cameras or other devices are from bad USB cables, or inappropriate hubs (never, ever use an unpowered hub, never use too-long cables, never use "extension" cables, with all these things being far more critical for USB3 than USB2). Most USB cables for sale are crap.  Changing the file path does not always lead to a freeze of the program, there are no known cases where it does, but if you have found one please share what it is you changed it to so people can recreate it. Without any knowledge of what you did, I would say the most likely case for something like that is an interaction with some 3rd party antivirus, use of some kind of folder that is sync'd (e.g. One Drive), using a network path not a local path, or similar in-use situations. NINA creates a log file. Windows has event logs. |
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Adel Kildeev:=14px*** For me screen shots, logs, outputs sounds like dark magic, please do not put a curse on me While I appreciate the humor, in all seriousness you need to learn how computers work. When imaging was photographic, people had to learn how cameras and film worked, how to push/develop. The computer is no less a part of your imaging setup than the telescope. You should learn your computer as well as you do any other aspect of your setup. If you do not want to, visual astronomy is still a terrific hobby (or so I am told by people who ask why my eyepieces are all covered in dust). |
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| If I only knew where is NINA logs....Damned.... |
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Adel Kildeev: This is from discord:  Note you don't even need to know that, there's a button that can open the logs in NINA as noted above. |
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Adel Kildeev: Fight is a mischaracterization in my view. I feel many of us experienced users undertand N.I.N.A. has a robust and efficient support system through the Discord. Through the N.I.N.A. Discord you get direct access to the developers of N.I.N.A. as well as plugin developers. Since we spend time there we know how to raise a question, scan for people reporting similar issues we may be dealing with, find answers to our issue, find the links to the relevant N.I.N.A. documentation set. So personally I do not fight for N.I.N.A.. What I do is work to educate others to help them understand there is a robust, most often real-time, support system available to them if they put in the effort to access it, what information they should prepare for submittal in support of their issue if they do not find the answer on the Discord, and share with them that most times the issue they are blaming on N.I.N.A. is their issue due to their lack of understanding about what N.I.N.A. is and how it works. What it is and how it works is not hidden. It is in plain view via the documentation and content on the N.I.N.A. Discord. My concern is when someone keeps referring to it as a "N.I.N.A. bug" when it has not been established that it is, this becomes a disservice to others who may be discouraged from using N.I.N.A by this misinformation and therefore miss out on the tremendous value N.I.N.A. provides to imagers in this hobby. There is a reason why some many of us rely on N.I.N.A. Regards, Bill |
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| The fourth bug (OK, the forth evidence of my computer ignorance - if you fell this way better)-I reloaded the laptop and tried to connect devices (the camera and EFW) - the program freezes again.... Bad luck or bug- whatever, the result is the same. I can send log (I know know-great thanks). The general rule - you are getting that your paid for.... Free program - I should not scream and cry-chew it up and go.... |
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Adel Kildeev: Not at all. The cost is less relevant than evidence. If you were complaining about Voyager (what I consider the leading NINA competitor and definitely not free), I would feel the same (well, I wouldn't answer as I do not use it and can't help). It's more about being respectful to your readers -- before you fault any product, you should consider finding out what actually happens. Not the symptoms, but the cause. I believe it is likely your problems are self induced -- I may be wrong, of course, but I help a lot of people on Discord and so I have some experience reading between the lines. As Bill above said, it does a disservice to future users (regardless if of a paid product or not) if people go around complaining how buggy it is, if the underlying problem is lack of proper setup, reading the user manual, etc. And if it is buggy, it is a great service to NINA and the developers to provide evidence so the problems can be found and fixed. Let's take freezes in particular - they tend to be very difficult to debug. The circumstances surrounding them is often all one has to go on, as the program may not have actually logged any error. Knowing such things as whether the Windows event log showed anything, whether the program is hung in a compute loop (using lots of CPU) or hung waiting (no visible activity in task manager) is helpful, but knowing precisely what it was likely to be doing is helpful. Also, USB problems are NOT NINA's fault. There are many ways you should learn to debug them, from device manager to programs like USBTreeView, which can tell you if you have hardware problems or not. NINA gets better when people report bugs. I think everyone using NINA and the developers appreciate it. But a bug report is worse than useless if it doesn't have the data to reproduce or find it, or at least separate it from bad hardware and incorrect user configuration. Consider a minor nit -- you asked where the logs are. Fair question, but 10 seconds with google and "NINA Logs" answers that question. I think it is expected that users meet developers (and 3rd parties just trying to help) halfway. |
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| 20240225-103852-3.0.0.3001.8144-202402.log |
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| as an example.... Suddenly color of the changed to green - was white before..... I do not understand.... other program works fine, MS too |
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Adel Kildeev: So tell me what specifically I'm looking for, what kind of symptom did you observe and about what time? The end of the log shows an image saved and the camera disconnected as well as filter wheel. If this is the case where everything hung, I don't think there is much here. |
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Adel Kildeev: Sorry... color of what? If you are talking of color FITS images, if they are debayered they can show heavily green until processed because there are two green sensor sites for ever red or blue. That has nothing to do with anything really, everything you see of an astro image is a preview stretch (to the eye they would otherwise appear black). Color comes from your it is post processed. If you mean some kind of error or status indicator changed color would need more. And how does the color of ... whatever... have anything to do with your other issues? If you want help, please give some hints as to how to connect the dots, and my suggestion is one problem at a time. |
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Linwood Ferguson:Adel Kildeev: *** Sorry to be unclear-the NINA screen became green (not the image-it is W&B). It was white before, I have feelings that the program switching between old version and new one..... Completely different layout for screens, color.... I upgraded to 3.0 version over 2.0, is it possible that both versions work on the same laptop? I have only one icon of NINA on the desktop. *** |
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| Adel - No, it’s not possible. You’re just making up crazy theories - like the idea that NINA is buggy - without any evidence or apparent knowledge of how computers, software, or astrophotography gear work. Have you considered watching some of the NINA tutorial videos available online? |
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| I am not sure which log shows the sudden bugs.... I have a lot.... |
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Adel - No, it’s not possible. You’re just making up crazy theories - like the idea that NINA is buggy - without any evidence or apparent knowledge of how computers, software, or astrophotography gear work. Have you considered watching some of the NINA tutorial videos available online? *** Thank for your kind comment and support.... *** |
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Linwood Ferguson:Adel Kildeev: *** Hard to tell exactly time, I had several attempts and several failures today, a lot of logs..... *** |
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| these all logs for today |
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Adel Kildeev: *** Indeed glad you have it back. You dont have to be sorry, no stupidity at all. Im am in IT since 1980 and seen a lot. But when programs crash and data is deleted (or put in another place after new install) , then theres a serious problem with the program not with you. Unlike some people suggest. Having 12 TB data in the meantime aftger 1.5 years starshooting, myself, I dont have a backup of all that. Only the most important result I make copies to other disks once and a while but not everyday. Its not easy to think of a good sytem for that. If anyone has a good idea, why dont you share it. So yes it can be handy to make copies of most important data sometimes. And a good co-hobbyist happend the same with Nina on a Merequiter and data on an external drive. Shoud not happen under any circumstance. And yes software is always full of bugs, some peope make al living of that. So just go on with Starmining (funny nickname) |
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Sorry, I tried. Logs are long, I would need some kind of hint what, and at least roughly when, I am looking for. As to 2 vs 3 - no, as above, both literally cannot be installed at the same time. NINA does have themes, and there is a button to shift from one to the other, you probably hit it. Also, the imagnig pane is flexible and can be rearranged at a whim, but that means you can also screw it up. On options, imaging at the bottom there is a "reset layout" that puts it back to normal, as well as the option to backup and restore your particular favorite(s) layouts. Maybe the simple thing is to start over now, and go until you find the first "bug" and stop, note the time, save the logs, and share them. Preferably on discord, but here is ok just a much smaller audience. Don't keep going and get what you think are lots of failures. Also, I notice you didn't give any comment to my USB cable issues, or thoughts on why you think you are immune to the most common problem going, but I recommend you replace your cables, and do not use any USB 3 cable over about 1m certainly no more than 1.5 (and please don't tell me "it says here 3m is fine"). And quality cables, not cheap crap from Amazon, and never, ever, ever use the flat cables ZWO ships with their cameras for USB3. Preferably not USB2 though USB2 is much more forgiving. Good luck. |
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| Wil - There’s not a shred of evidence that any files were deleted, certainly not by the software. |
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WIL VREE:Adel Kildeev: *** Thanks, Wil, you do have also nice nickname  As already joked, you are a still a human being after many years working in the IT department. As a lawyer, I could no say the same about many of my colleagues in law firms.... I admire Better Call Saul- the really good anti-lawyers jokes and satire  NINA is a nice program and I like it, this is why I did p.. off when it crashed. I am really puzzled - a damaged cable, MS problem, NINA problem, a hard disc failure? I lost my laptop last December (just died at once, no explanation.....), so this is my older daughter school computer (she since graduated from the University with cum laude) and I have no idea what went wrong. It is really stupid to declare that NINA is a virgin and the program has no sins at all. Would you trust any software when diving 40 meters down or prefer good old manually operated diving gear (as a certified diver I would say -NO WAY). You are absolutely right - any shit can happen with any software. I already told the story when the Moravian Instruments screwed up with their software SIPS (they changed gain setting to 0 to all cameras at default but damaged camera's driver settings...so.... I know that the libel mean and as a lawyer can prove my statement in any court of law, I am good at that-trust me. ***
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Somehow NINA did use the old abandoned folder that I used two years ago with the first version.... But all my efforts to change the folder are sensless, nothing shows up in the new folder....Probably, there is a bug in the software that override the new command and save in default folder in the previous version, so updates do not effect it somehow....I am not a computer guy, sorry for my stupidity. 